Baptism in Holy Spirit and in Fire

by Inkie 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    This morning my brother asked me a question about the following biblical text.

    “I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire .”—Matthew 3:11.

    He, my brother, had a conversation with a brother in the congregation who stated that “being baptized by fire was not the [same as being baptized by] Holy Spirit.” Apparently, it seems, the brother’s statement came from the Society’s CD-ROM. The brother stated that “fire always means destruction or something destructive and not rewarding.” The brother also said “that the Disciples were not ‘immersed’ in fire” and, thus, asserting that what happened at Pentecost was not a baptism in fire.

    I wondered about this and asked my Lord: ‘Lord, how am I to respond to this inquiry? I don’t know how to answer him (my brother).’ My Lord said to me: ‘Do what you normally do. Look up the words. Start there.’ So that’s what I did. I looked up the words.

    I then began writing the following to my brother:

    While it is true the fire can destroy, it is also known to cleanse or make pure, while at the same time not destroy that which has been placed in the fire, yes?

    Note that the Greek word for fire (pyr) means first: “to purify.” Thus, this “brother’s” assertion (and the Society’s CD-ROM explanation) that “fire always means destruction or something destructive and not rewarding” is false.

    Note also the meaning of “baptize”: 1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk); 2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe.

    Note too that while “baptism” is defined as “dipping or submerging,” it is also defined as “wash[ing]” and to “bathe,” which does not necessarily REQUIRE that one be totally submerged or IMMERSED in water (or fire) to be cleansed. One can be “wash[ed]” with a wash cloth and thus be made clean, yes? Meaning? Meaning, again, that one does not have to be totally IMMERSED in fire to be made clean (as some would have you believe MUST be done).

    At this point, my Lord reminded me, ‘Did I not also say when washing ONLY the feet of my disciples:

    ‘He that has bathed does not need to have more than his feet washed, but is wholly clean.’”—John 13:10.

    So it’s not necessary to be IMMERSED entirely or washed entirely to be made clean as some would have you believe MUST be the procedure. When Christ ‘washed’ the feet of his disciples it wasn’t necessary to bathe their entire bodies for them to be made clean, now was it?

    My Lord then said to me: “When I washed their feet only, was I not, according to the definition of the words, ‘baptizing’ them?” Indeed he was. Thus, the flames of fire (holy spirit) above the heads of the disciples at Pentecost was also a “baptism” by ‘holy spirit and in fire.’

    So, if you follow the meanings of the two words themselves, you get “being baptized” or, said another way, you get cleansed, washed, made clean, and bathed, with fire that purifies. Yes? Fire is first and foremost a cleansing agent before it becomes a destroying agent. Jah himself is described as a “consuming fire” and yet, what does He choose first? He chooses FIRST to save before the necessity of destroying. And it takes a long, long, long time for Him to get to that point of destroying. ‘Jah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness.’

    So then, when John says that the One coming after him (Christ) will baptize with “holy spirit and in fire” it means Christ will “cleanse” and “purify” first and foremost.

    --Inkie

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Wonderful post, dear Inkie (the greatest of love and peace to you, my brother!)! I am glad that you received that truth and have shared it! I absolutely get it... and when I asked was told that you have shared the truth on the matter! So, THANK YOU for sharing that!

    The brother also said “that the Disciples were not ‘immersed’ in fire” and, thus, asserting that what happened at Pentecost was not a baptism in fire.

    Funny, isn't it, though, that "little flames" appeared over the heads of those who RECEIVED holy spirit at that time? Now, what do you suppose THAT was all about?? That "fire" was holy spirit, dear one... the blood of God... LIVING "water" (fire is a living thing, isn't it?)... granted through Christ... that cleanses!

    But we shouldn't be surprised at the WTBTS' ignorance. The WTBTS is a false prophet, led by false prophets and false christs, dear one. They don't know jack... and they certainly don't know the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... because they don't KNOW His Son and Christ, our Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, His Chosen One.

    Again, thank you... and peace to you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

    SA

  • ShadesofGrey
    ShadesofGrey

    I was actually wondering about that "and fire" part when I was reading it the other day.

    Daughter of the King,

    SOG

  • watersprout
    watersprout

    Thanks Inkie! I have a feeling I will be using what you have posted on my inlaws very soon.

    Peace

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    Nor must we forget that Jah's presence with Israel was during Israel's exodus from Egypt as both a Pillar of Cloud (by day) and a Pillar of Fire (by night). This is everywhere written in Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Psalms, and Prophets.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Fire and cleansing/ purification have always gone hand-in-hand, look at ritual sacrficial offerings - holocausts ie: burnt offerings.

    An excellent point about not needing to be immersed by the way.

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    And . . . and . . . when

    "My Lord then said to me: “When I washed their feet only, was I not, according to the definition of the words, ‘baptizing’ them?” Indeed he was."

    How are we then to understand what he stated at Matthew 28:19-20? Something to make you go, "Hmm . . . ." His method v. everyone else's? And something (washing one another's feet) he commanded US to do, yes? (John 13) Hmm. . . .

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Indeed, dear Inkie (again, the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). I especially like how he is recorded to have said, "Unless I wash you, you have NO part with me!" (John 13:8)... then said to Peter (who wanted his head and hands washed also), “He that has bathed does not need to have more than his feet washed, but is wholly clean" (John 13:9)... and then told them all... after asking them, "“Do YOU know what I have done to YOU?"... "... if I, although Lord and Teacher, washed YOUR feet, YOU also ought to wash the feet of one another. For I set the pattern for YOU, that, just as I did to YOU , YOU should do also." (John 13:13-15).

    Many, however, miss not only the PURPOSE of this... but that it is a COMMAND, albeit perhaps a "least" one (yet, an IMPORTANT one). Because he also said, "He that is faithful in what is LEAST... is faithful... in MUCH."

    Many dismiss this command... as they do the one regarding eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ... because they consider it "burdensome." Washing someone else's feet is not... ummmmm... desirable. In some instances, it can even be repulsive. But... love... and compassion... can get one past such feelings. Something that helped ME to do so was in one of my favorite movies, "Dangerous Beauty", with Katherine McCormack (played Mel Gibson's wife in "Braveheart") and Rufus Sewell:

    The movie is based on the true story of Veronica (oh, shoot, I forget her last name), a Venetian courtesan (prostitute) and poetess who lived during the time of the Inquisition. She didn't want to be a prostitute but a wife and poetess (she wanted to marry the son of a Venetian senator; however, the son couldn't marry her because she was below his station). I know I'm deviating a bit... but, please... bear with me: I have a point.

    When the senator's son rejected her as wife, but proposed to "keep" her as a concubine, she was pimped by her mother (a former prostitute; her father had died, leaving them penniless and the mother saw no other way for them to survive). Anyway, she was very beautiful and desired by all the men of court (the Senate, Doge, even the Cardinal)... and especially the senator's son.

    The son's uncle was the richest man in the city. He was also the most shrewd... and mean. But he was an invalid, suffering from leprosy and needing to be driven around in a wheeled-chair with his legs wrapped in bandages. So, of course, he didn't "need" Veronica's services and considered her with disdain. However, one day they were chatting (actually, he was interrogating her)... and his coverlet fell off so that she got to see his diseases legs. Embarrassed, he immediately tried to cover them up... but she stopped him, saying "I'm not afraid of flesh"... and then removed the bandages and began tenderly cleaning his wounds with wine. As a result of the look of true, non-condescending compassion on her face as she "serviced" him in THIS way, the man's heart softened and he became one of her greatest allies, even publishing her first book of poems.

    That look, however, opened something in ME: it helped me to see that flesh is flesh... and of no use at all. As well as that I had nothing to fear by touching someone else's flesh, even if diseased. It was this that helped me moved past the WTBTS very unloving "directive" as to how to "approach" [newly baptized] publishers who had AIDS. Per the directive, those who had "communicable" diseases, such as HIV/AIDS, etc., had a DUTY to either decline hugs/handshakes... or put some kind of "barrier" between their bodies and others.

    I learned this when I met a very nice young gay "brother" who had converted and been baptized. When I went to shake his hand, he pulled his sweater sleeve down to cover HIS hand (er?! ). He then explained... with GREAT embarassment... that he had AIDS and had been told by the "brothers"/Society that he had a responsibility not to "infect" any of the other publishers. I... was... flabbergasted! First, because I knew by that time that HIV/AIDS wasn't passed through casual toughing, but even MORE so... because we were SUPPOSED to be "christians"! What if Christ hadn't wanted to touch those he healed????

    I was SO disappointed in that directive. I just pushed the young man's sleeve up and touched his hand and told him I "wasn't afraid of flesh." Then I kept apologizing because I was SO embarrassed at "our" treatment of this, a newly baptized publisher. I was ashamed for us.

    Anyway, I think it is SO sad how the WTBTS has used their wicked, evil, attempt to be so "clean"... that they have literally removed this "command", basically teaching that is it unnecessary. NOT because Christ gave an out... but because they consider THEMSELVES so clean... that even touching something physically unclean is repulsive to them. They... who are the MOST unclean... being, as they are... FULL of dead men's bones... on the INSIDE!

    They will realize, however, that their attempts to be "clean"... in a physical sense... will NOT save them, not at all. They can clean the outside of the "cup" all they want to... but the Most Holy One of Israel examines what we are on the INSIDE. Thus, Christ said:

    "Cleanse the INSIDE of the cup..."

    Again, thank you for sharing this with us... and peace to you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

    SA

  • tec
    tec

    Thank you, Inkie, for sharing that. I hear you.

    Shelby, yes, I've thought the same, concerning disease in others. We should not be so afraid of disease or uncleanliness of the flesh that we forgo compassion in place of keeping our own flesh safe. Because how clean is our spirit then? Not an easy thing for anyone to do, of course... but the spirit counts more than the flesh. For all, actually.

    Peace to you all,

    Tammy

  • DagothUr
    DagothUr

    I don't get it: "My Lord said to me" means Jesus told you in your head?

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