What Do You Say or Is It Better to Saying Nothing?

by Eiben Scrood 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • jamiebowers

    If your "friend" gives your response to the elders and you're going to be df'd anyway, make sure to tell him that the "imperfections" with the Watchtower aren't small or easily overlooked. The worst one that comes to my mind is the well documented child molestation problem, the cover-ups of it and the resulting fallout for the victims.

  • Eiben Scrood
    Eiben Scrood

    Two months later he finally got back to me. Here was his reply:

    I got really busy and didn't get the time earlier to responding to your last email.

    If we believe the Bible to be God's word which the overwhelming evidence indicates, we can't pick and choose what we want to believe or not. The idea that we can choose what is right or wrong is exactly what God's adversaries is arguing. I personally don't agree with the demons. Sure we may feel guilt due to our sinful inclinations but that is ok since we have a compass, our conscience and the standards laid out in God's word. Growing up is hard and living in a self indulgent world doesn't make it easy, that isn't the Watchtower's fault. The fact is that Jehovah continues to use the Watchtower organization, the faithful and discreet slave class. What is being accomplished world wide it truly remarkable and your father and mother were part of that work. No other organization in the world is doing the preaching work, declaring God's Kingdom, on the scale it is being accomplished. They are feeding the Truths and taking care of God's people spiritually. Look how much knowledge your parents had about the Bible and compare that with any priest from any other organization. Your parents could run circles around anyone of them. That knowledge comes from Jehovah's organization. Taking issue with the organization or siding with those that are I don't think is always wise. I think about Korah and the 250 men who didn't agree with Moses and spoke out against him. Jehovah was certainly not happy because they ignored the evidence that he was using Moses. (Numbers 16:) So you need to be 100% sure if you don't think Jehovah is using the Watchtower organization. You will need to find the organization Jehovah is using because at Mat 24:45 it makes it clear that there is a faith and discreet slave class. You can look all you want but you will not find it other then Jehovah's organization.

    Math 24:45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings

    The scripture you listed are all true but the reasoning is the same I hear from the apostates, from the gay community, from most Christian organizations. God is love and the Christ died for all our sins therefore all we need to do is be happy and live a good life and God will save us. Nice, so we now think God is a chump, we can do and live your lives as we see fit and God will just save us. Somehow now thru Christ's death, God serves us? I just don't buy it. The fact is only Noah and his family got on the ark. Jesus made it clear few are the ones finding the path that leads to life since the majority are on the road to destruction.

    Matt 7:13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

    Math 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

    Math 24:38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

    1 Cor 6:9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.

    There are many more scripts showing God expects to be worshiped the way he wants to be worshiped, not by our own ideas, or the ideas of the demons. It is not an a la carte menu.

    My point is you know better and I expect better reasonings from you. If folks don't want to worship Jehovah than that is just fine but be honest. Jesus preached and did awesome things but why was it that the majority didn't want to follow him? It was because they just didn't what to change, they wanted to live the life they wanted. Was it that folks didn't want the promises? Sure who wouldn't but are they really going to get it? Jehovah has certainly given us the freedom for now. It is up to us to express our willingness to serve him.

    I felt I had to say what I had to say because one day I hope to see your parents whom we both loved dearly. I wouldn't be happy with myself if I didn't say I tried.

    Wakeup and do some real thinking. ;-)

    I'm still digesting it. I tried to be kind in my original reply and not burst his Watchtower bubble. Now I'm preparing to bring out the big guns and blow a hole through his cult. I'm insulted that he said he expected better reasoning from me. Well, if he wants it, he's going to get it.

  • wobble

    Whoa boy, just make sure you do not go down to his level and start an Ad Hominem attack. Be kind, respectful, but concise, let him know your friendship and regard for him are not dependant on his beliefs.

    But still let him have the truth. It will do no good, I would wager, but you never can tell, sometimes the paerson is ready.

  • Knowsnothing

    Eiben, he is 100% pro org. Don't do it man. Don't discuss religion.

    I doubt after that reply that you guys will get along well. There will be a big tension in the room.

    Imagine worse case scenario that, out of his concern, he sends and elder to "help" you. I believe that is the last thing you want.

    Your fade has been successful so far, don't kill it now (unless you really want to...)

  • leavingwt

    Eiben Scrood: Never discuss doctrine. If he were to actually change his mind to agree with you on a particular point, 'where else would he go?', because in his mind, Watchtower is God's Organization.

  • N.drew

    God is a spirit. The Bible that they say they obey says God will raise a greater ONE than Moses. It wasn't an organization, it is Jesus. And Moses didn't obey an organization. He obeyed the SPIRIT. Ask him what organization did Moses obey?

  • Knowsnothing

    Ask him what organization did Moses obey?

    Nancy, don't you know Moses had to obey himself? He couldn't just go above himself and say, "Hey, me! That's right, me! Who do I think I am? God's organisation?"

    Moses would then respond, "Moses, were will I go to?"

    Moses would have loyally submit and give himself a foot wash to prove his humility and subservience to himself, God's organisation.

  • poopsiecakes

    This is a very slippery slope - probably best to just wish him Merry Christmas and...wait...scratch that. Probably best to just reply that he's given you food for thought and that you hope he's doing well.

    Your experience is exactly why I haven't contacted anyone from my JW past - no matter how much I miss them. It's so hard to let them preach all this crap at you without responding with actual intelligent thought that it becomes an exercise in frustration. My (former) friends know that I'm here for them whenever they need me...this has been made clear many times, so I wait and hope the scales will come off their eyes eventually.

    Congrats on the upcoming addition to your family! That's wonderful news.

  • BluesBrother

    I exchanged e mails with a J W friend for a while .. He was a pretty liberal guy and I trusted him not to make trouble, although he could have used them against me if he had chosen to report me to his, and my old, B O E...

    Eventually the correspondance died away .. Only reply if you trust him!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    If Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Idi Amin etc, were Witnesses, there actions would be excused b/c they are imperfect humans. Makes one wonder how imperfect humans can ever administer God's Word.

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