What Do You Say or Is It Better to Saying Nothing?

by Eiben Scrood 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • Eiben Scrood
    Eiben Scrood

    I miss some of my old Watchtower friendships. Usually I can just put the people out of my mind but when a big event comes up like me expecting my first child, I did reach out a bit. This one friend in particular was kind of like an older brother to me. We did lots of sports together and just clicked pretty well. I've haven't been in contact since I exited the cult about 6 years ago but I did email him to tell him about my good news. I was hoping the religion wouldn't come up but on the second reply he felt it necessary to ask about my involvement.

    Some of the conversation (spelling mistakes are his):

    Him: Unfortunately I haven't keep up much as to what has been going on. Are you still going to the meeting and is [your new wife] in the truth, if not what is her take on it?

    Me: No, I don't go anymore. I just couldn't live it and felt like I was going through the motions. There were things that bothered me like your being marked just for deciding to go to college. [My wife] has never been that religious but we talk about it sometimes. I also think this new "overlap" generation thing they came up with last year is completely over-the-top.

    Him: Years ago they did do the stupid marking but that whole idea has been done away with. I was marked but I always realized it wasn't Jehovah's view but just the issue with imperfect ideas. Didn't stop me from going to the meetings and serving Jehovah. All thru the ages Jehovah has been dealing with imperfect folks; Moses, Arron, David, Peter, Paul ... and the list goes on. Their imperfections, the stupid things they said and did, didn't mean that Jehovah wasn't using them or that they weren't part of his organization. He works with those willing to advance his purposes. Over time things get corrected as I knew they would with the view of higher education. Now it is pretty balanced. Going to college and seeing what goes on there I certainly understand the concerns.

    There will always be little things in the truth, as I said imperfect humans. A few things over the year I may not have though the understanding was correct or what was written was total correct but it doesn't really matter. Those things don't effect our worshipping of Jehovah. The small things gets corrected over time when it is time to fit and make sense. The understanding of the King of the North, or this Generation doesn't really matter. This is Jehovah's organization and it is the Truth, compare it to any other organization in the world, hands down no one is following and doing or has the understanding of the truth. One has to look at the whole. Imagine if someone looked at King David's or Solomon's faults and concluded that the nation of Israel wasn't Jehovahs people. It would be missing the big picture and all of the evidence that it was. The reality is Jehovah has a people that he uses to accomplish his purpose. It moves forward and the details get reveled when they are important, we just need to hang on for the ride. The alternatives doesn't offer much long term, and the alternatives don't offer any Truths. As a new father to be, you will be faced with what truths will you tell your son. Educate your son on the info given by the Catholics, the Baptists, the Evangelicals, the Lutherans, the Mormons, the Buddhists, the Hindus, or anything else we make up, or the Truth. To me the truths are clear and I know Jehovah has an organization, true it's earthly form isn't perfect but neither am I. Having children is a true gift Jehovah has given us. I think we can express our appreciation by making sure we raise our sons and daughter to know the truths about Jehovah, and hopefully they will decide to do the right thing. Jehovah has certainly made it clear that it is our responsibility.

    What do you even say to that? I'm not one to usually back down from presenting a counter viewpoint but I realize if I do, it will mostly likely go nowhere and might end any further communication. But then I wonder if that would be a good thing. My wife thinks I need to just try to cut off all remaining contact with those inside it. Maybe the best thing to do would be to ignore most of it and just wish him well. I guess what gets me a bit more is the guilt trip he’s trying to throw on me about my son.


  • Eiben Scrood
    Eiben Scrood

    Post fixed..

  • cedars

    Eiben - are you really thinking of answering him? I suppose how you answer depends on your standing. I assume if he is contacting you now you are inactive and NOT disfellowshipped or disassociated? If that's the case, there's not much you can say to someone with such a well formed opinion without getting yourself in trouble. He's clearly made up his mind, and isn't expressing any doubts despite how he was treated in the past. You need to ask yourself, is it worth it?

    Unless you're interested in getting disfellowshipped or disassociated, I would simply commend him for his zeal, and ask him to forgive you if you don't see things in quite the same way at this precise moment.

  • leavingwt

    Unless you want to hear your friend say hurtful things to you, END the conversation.

    Free people and slaves have almost nothing in common.

    It sucks to lose your friends, but your freedom is more valuable. So long as he is a victim of Thought Reform, he does not have the capacity to be anything other than a conditional friend.

    I would rather have one REAL friend, than a thousand conditional friends.

  • troubled mind
    troubled mind

    I think it is very sad he could just not say, " Hey really glad to hear from you it has been a long time ! Wow great news about you having your first child ,that is exciting . How does it feel being a Dad ? " See that would be normal expressions from a long time friend . Instead what you got was a JW infomercial .

    Your wife is correct about letting go of the old relationships . They are not based on reality . His response is only a small glimpse of what is to come .

    Should you respond ??? That depends on you . One safe way I would respond would be something like this ," Well it was great sharing my happy news with you ,my wife and I are so happy with the prospects of raising our child together in a happy well balanced home ." Leave it at that imho.

  • tec

    You could reply that the couple of things you had a problem with were only the tip of the iceberg, but you don't know if its a good idea to get into all of that. (or you could list a whole bunch more, but be prepared for either a long drawn out back-and-forth, OR, nothing at all.)

    If you want to avoid that, then you could say something to the effect of, "Any organization could claim that the imperfections within them are the mere imperfections of men. In fact, they do."

    In either case, you might want to mention to him that CHRIST is the Truth. Not any imperfect organization of men. Christ. And anyone can follow Him.



  • tec

    If you are trying to continue contact with him though, then the others' responses are best. Just steer clear of anything religion-related, and speak about life, your son, your wife, the things you do... at the same time asking about his. Just ignore the religious stuff.



  • Eiben Scrood
    Eiben Scrood

    I did a successful fade. I really doubt they would come after me at this point no matter what I said but I suppose it's possible.

    I have found that it is possible to have nominal friendships with active Watchtowerites. I work with two, one of whom is an elder, and they both still talk to me in a reasonably friendly way. We'll even talk about people who are still in it. We just don't discuss religion. It's true that if they knew my true thoughts about it, it might be a different story. I was hoping to have a similar type of relationship with this other friend. I suppose that it's even less likely after this latest barrage against former members.

    I appreciate the input.

  • punkofnice

    Indeed what can you say? I suspect not a lot. This geezer is coasting along in the 'troooooof' unaware that 'marking' isn't old light(TM).

    He's had his 'mind cleansed' (WT 1st June '53 pg 350 para 24), good and proper by the WTB$.

    If God exists even, and used 'imperfect men' is not the same as the paedo protecting 7 headed beast in Brooklyn (GB).

    God gave clear instructions and Holy Spirit to the Biblical 'imperfect men'. He does no such thing to the paedo protectors (GB).

    The difference between the 'imperfect men' in da trooooof as opposed to 'imperfect men' in other religions is very telling.

    JWs = conditional love based on how closely you follow Pharisee rules. Disagree with the leaders and you're outed!

    Other faiths = Apart from other cults, mainstream faiths tend to be unconditional in their love on the basis that God judges, not some twot in a cheap suit who has the kind of power over people he'd never have in the real world.

    As frustrating as it is, as much as you'd like to help your mate exit...........there aint much you can do.

    Perhaps if he asks about your departure from the trooooooooof you can say: 'Well, to be honest, it was the watchtower's involvement with the UN I found to be dishonest. If what the watchtower says about the UN is true then Jehovah must be very displeased!'

    Leave it hanging. Your mate will probably come back with 'They're just imperfect men yadda yadda yadda.....it's still god's organization yadda yadda yadda..........Jah'll sort it out blah blah blah.....................we must obey the GB bleat bleat bleat........'

    Sorry, not meaning to be disrespectful to matey but I've heard it all a million times!

  • Honesty

    Him: Unfortunately I haven't keep up much as to what has been going on. Are you still going to the meeting and is [your new wife] in the truth, if not what is her take on it?

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