Mindchild; NICE MdS quote!
flower; I can sympathise with some of your problem. I too am a third-gen xJW. I grew-up in the Dubs and only got the English equivalent of a High School education, and I really didn't apply myself.
It is good you are challanging the pre-conceptions you grew up with, or at least if not challanging them, wondering why they are not Univesally believed.
However, I have no sympathy for this attitude;
"please dont tell me that i cant know without doing months of research"
Now, if you want to base what you believe on other people tell you AGAIN, that is your own look out. I think you would be far better advised DOING SOME WORK YOURSELF.
You are not in the Dubs any longer. You need to take responsibility, not wait to be told what to believe in the next issue of the Watchtower or the Awake!, or find a nice easy condensed version on the back of a packet of cornflakes, or some seemingly rational arguement presented by someone who may have a vested agenda, or be belieiivng something out of a desire to believe rather than due to facts.
Now, I went to University and got a degree; I don't say you have to do that. But going and buying or loaning from the library some basic science testbooks, and reading enough so you can understand what people are talking about when they have a debate on evolution and start getting into more complicated scientific concepts is essential. It is also essential that you develop critical thinking ability, the ability to take an arguement to pieces and see if there are faults in it. Again, there are books on the subject, but I learnt this by means of doing English Literature, where you learn to close read a text and take it apart.
Without this you are just going in the direction the wind that happens to fill your sails; you seem to have a strong desire that there is a god, and without getting yourself a little more scientific knowledge and critical reading ability, all you will end up deciding is that there is a god.
Stand on your own feet flower; there are many here who will give you a hand to do so, but don't expect to be wheeled to your next set of beliefs by other people; that's what you grew up in, aren't you sick of it?
Having said that, I personally believe there is no god. By 'god', I mean a typical conception of the Christian god, loving and concerned, with a desire for a pattern of conduct for those that follow him.
I do this because of the lack of closure.
There are thousands of beliefs in the world. A Muslim Iman, a Roman Catholic Priest, a Jehovah's Witness, and a Haitian Animist will all say they have the truth. They do. They have individual truths that are true to them. Not one can convincingly seperate his beliefs from those of the others on the grounds of hard evidence. They will cite scripture or verbal lore, recount history that cannot be conclusively proved, and possibly even cite personal experiences as proof.
But, they can't all be right, can they?
IF god is a loving concerned being with a pattern of conduct for those that follow him, then the TRUE faith would be CLEARLY identifiable, as otherwise, people might out of all sincerity, or by accident of birth, end up following the WRONG pattern of conduct, because there was no way of them being shown it was wrong, as all faiths have the same amount of evidence (or lack of evidence).
Also, as there are very sound scientific theories (until you study more, you'll have to believe me on this) that provide alternate explainations for how we got here. Scientific theories as to our origin are less than 200 years old, but are already detailed, have large amounts of evidence (discount EVERYTHING you have read in the Society's literature on Evolution, it is grossly distorted and selective) and display broad areas of agreement amongst many scientists NO MATTER WHERE THEY COME FROM.
If god was loving, concerned, and had a pattern of behaviour for us to follow, why would he leave no evidence of his existence, as in hard evidence? God is deduced from not being able to find other explainations for something, rather than being proved by any scientific methodology.
You don't have to prove gravity do you? Why should you have to prove god?
In contrast, the various theories of god (remember this phrase; you cannot talk about theories of Evolution without conceeding that there are also theories of god) have been around for thousands of years, have only agreement in the broadest of terms (don't kill, don't have sex with your family, don;t steal), and differ ACCORDING TO WHERE THE RELIGIONIST COMES FROM.
This contrast between scientific and religionist theories of origin, for me, indicates that IF there is a god, then it's not a loving concerned creator with a pattern of behaviour for us to follow. The Book of the Month club can tell you what they want and what they give far more effectively than god has done, as all there is regarding belief of god, when viewed from a distance, is confusion and disagreemwnt.
For example, if god were loving and concerned, why are not Biblical prophecies explicit? Why are they vauge, and subject to interpretation? WHY WOULD A LOVING AND CONCERNED DIETY WITH A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOUR FOR US TO FOLLOW ALLOW SUCH VAUGENESS?
Of course, it is impossible to prove that something that doesn't exist doesn't exist. You cannot disprove I have a 10' tall pink bunny called Alfred watching over me.; you might not believe me, but you can't prove me wrong... as ALfred is invisable and leaves no physical or scientifically satisfactory evidence of his existence, and speaks to me through my mind.
But, one can deduce there is probably no concerned loving creator who has a plan for us by the way things are.
There might be a creator god, who started things off and let is run from there, being a dispassionate distant observer. There might be zillions of little 'gods'. We might be a by-product of whatever god really was doing, like the insecets that live in a Compost Heap. Or there might be no god.
I know which of those I find most likely...
Some answers to specific points in your posts;
... someone said to me 'there is not a shred of evidence to prove there is a god'. well geez, what am i supposed to say to that? i cant point to the bible. how do i prove that the bible is the inspired word of god?
You can't, nor can a Muslim prove the Quaran, or a Hindu prove the Bhagadvavita to be inspired word of god(s).
there is no other book like the bible, isnt that proof that it cant just be mans ideas?
In addition to doing a bit of reading on science, you need to do some on comparative religons. There are loads of 'Holy Books' you are just repeating something you were told that has no evidence to back it up.
i would show them nature and the amazing creation all around us but there are so many wacky theorys about how we came to be that i dont think that would work either.
Do some science reading, then say why you think they are whacky reasons. Until then you are just parroting what you've been told with no evidence to back it up and no knowledge to weight the arguement
so am i just thinking like a dub about creation, god, life, prayer, holy spirit, guidance and everything else that makes me believe i am a christian? i mean 'some' of what they taught were basic truths right?
Sorry flower, you are still thinking like a dub, your basic truths are different from someone born in Uttar Pradesh in India, and you could prove him wrong in an arguement.
i guess i would like to hear from some athiests about why they dont believe. well i really dont want to but i do. i dont want to because if i find that there is no god it will be quite crushing to me. but i still need to know.
I am glad you need to know. Atheists are ordinary people who don't believe in god, not demonised apostates you should keep away from; that is Dubby thinking. Believing in something that doesn't exists is far more crushing to the human spirit than finding out there is no god; trust me on this one.
All the best; do some reading, come and ask questions anytime, but don't ask what to believe like you are asking what tastes good at a Bar-B-Q
People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
