Ya'll dont believe in God? (page 12)

25ashitaka25

Do the post in Word first, then cut and paste.

That should help a bit.

At least you'll have a cooy.

ashi

you can believe whatever you want to believe, just because some people on this board don't believe in god shouldn't really matter to you. the whole idea of a relationship with god is a personal thing, and I'm not sure why you care so much about people not believing.

as for me, i'm undecided right now. i believe in records, cd's, and coffee.

gravedancer

Of course people can believe in what they want.

When I say I have a "personal relationship with Tinkerbell" please don't mock me...Please don't think I am lacking in anyway - I cannot prove to you that she exists but I believe she does and she has comforted me everytime I have prayed.

Fair is fair and Tinkerbell is my eternal saviour.

flower

DIM

I know it doesnt matter technically but when I asked this question originally I didnt know there was not any real answer to be had. I had a mixed up jw-type view of athiests. I was asking for truth or at least reasonings so I could settle things for myself. I realize now that the answer is complex and may not even be out there.

I realize now that you are right it doesnt matter what some one else believes and if they are right or wrong or if I am right or wrong. As long as we are all good decent people.

flower

ashi,

thats kinda funny you mention c.s.lewis. i was listening to a talk today by a christian and he was quoting the same author. i guess as long as there is life there will be more than one opinion/conclusion to the same information. thats what makes life interesting. (wow, did i say that..woohoo! breaking away from dubville)

flower

Prisca,

American?, who's American? I'm from Tuvalu.

flower

conflicted

I just found this thread, and to be honest, I didn't read all the way through. I don't know where it went in 6 pages, therefore, I'm going to restrict my reply to answering Flower's first post only.

As a JW I believed everything they taught - EVERYTHING. If it came from Brooklyn I bought it hook, line and sinker. When I left the organization it was in search of living my life for me, not because of any doubt I had in their teachings. That was 13 years ago - I went about my life fully believing the world would end soon, and that I would go with it because I refused to follow their rules. Last year I found this board and my research lead be to the fact that the JW's are a false religion and a cult. It was a serious and tremendous shock.

My faith was shaken to the core - not just in JW stuff, but in everything to do any religion. My entire faith and belief system was wrapped aroud JW dogma and when that fell away nothing was left - I'm still in th process of rebuilding my belief structure, but as of now God doesn't play a part. I don't know if he/she exists or not - I don't know what to believe, I'm still working it out. But with all the JW crap gone I'm starting from scratch, and I can't really say that there is enough evidence 'FOR ME' to believe in god.

That's only my opinion though - I only tell you what I think, what you believe is up to you.

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life is the opportunity for art

crownboy

Thanks for the replies

Flower said:

crownboy, i disagree partially. i no longer believe that i will be killed if i do or dont do something.

Good.

a lot of what you said about christians is actually just the jw way of thinking...not true christianity. i dont subscribe to the rules anymore.

It absolutely is true Christianity. Let me first of all say I'm not trying to assasinate the character of Christains. My argument wasn't that Christains are incapable of doing good without God telling them (I belive just the opposite, Christains tell God what is good since they made up the bible), my argument was that according to the bible a person cannot simply "be saved" by faith alone, but works are absolutely necessary to be saved. I think the scripture were Paul talks about us "being saved by grace" means that God is not obligated to save us, whether we're good or bad because he's so big and powerful and we're so puny. It does not mean that we can do whatever we want and God will forgive us. Sunbeam's post was trying to say that if we love God we'll do good.

The good works flow from the new life we receive, not in the hope that they will stop God from killing us if we step out of line. A Christian is 'a new creation in Christ - the old has gone, the new has come.' (2 Co, 5)

But the whole thing employs a sort of circular logic:
Why do I do "good"? Because I belive Jesus is my saviour.

How do I know that Jesus is my saviour? Because I do "good".

It is quite possible for me to both accept Jesus as my saviour and not do good. This is not a logical impossibilty. You may argue that a "true" Christain would always do "good", but if a "true" Christain is only saved by "faith alone" and not "works" then I can quite plausibly do bad and still be saved because I believe Jesus of Nazereth died for my sins. Obviously, this is false and I know of no Christain theology (nor a Bible) that teaches this. While faith in Jesus is fine and dandy, you need to show works to please God. Whether you would do these works regardless of whether you believed in god or not is irrelevent as to the necessity of these "works" for your salvation. Whether you would pay taxes if they were voluntary is irrelevant to the fact that you must pay them. So basically, my post was addressing the neccessity of works as opposed to a Christain's heart condition. Since Christain's know that they must perform certain works for God to save them, I agreed with Mommy's statement that a Christain has to do good deeds to save himself (this is not the same as saying Christains only do things to save themselves, and it seems as if Mommy has cleared that point up), whereas atheist don't do good deeds for any cosmic reward from any zany deity.

Flower also said:

i do what i feel is right. if i want to have premarital sex i would not feel that god is going to turn his back on me because of it.

Actually, according to the bible "fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom", so yes, God will "turn is back on you" (unless of course, you repent, and back it up by works and not faith alone ).

Obviously, I don't personally judge you for having pre martial sex, as I think this is just one man's (stupid) opinion of God. But if you are a Christain you can't pick and choose what you want to follow. By the fact that you choose to ignore this rule, you've either decided that the rule is silly or unimportant (despite your life being on the line for ignoring it). How can you decide which scriptures you heed, and which you ignore? Why can the bibles rules against fornication be ignored, but you take the afterlife concept and the existence of God with dead seriousness? Why only like the scriptures that make you feel "warm and fuzzy inside", but ignore or explain away the scriptures where God is a complete murderous jerk or demands we do something uncaring (like hate unbelievers)? They are all part of the bible canon, they are "all inspired of God". If we start picking and choosing which we like, that puts the validity of the whole cannon at stake (St. Augustine wrote a great essay on this), and instead of doing as "God says", we're doing as "we please", i.e. making moral judgements apart from God. Most non- Christain societies are pretty good at making moral judgements, they didn't need YHWH. Most Christain's are pretty good at "editing" YHWH into a nicer guy than he really is. We obviously have moral scruples aside from YHWH, since the world has moral societies that know nothing of him, and Christain's are bothered when they read about YHWH being a muderous lunatic, or a deity who would destroy someone for having pre marital sex. It simply doesn't sit well with us.

i think you are mistaken in thinking that christians are only good out of fear of god. yes i want to please god but i do good because i 'want' to. i dont always walk around thinking 'hey god look, did you see that? i was just really nice to that old lady'.

Well, I already told you I don't think Christain's are only good because of God, but I do hold that the Christain God would hold not helping the old lady against you.

The reason you do good is because of your nature, not because of YHWH. There are acts of altruism throughout the animal kingdom, only humans attribute their ability to do good to some deity. While you certainly do good acts because 'you want to', do you worship God simply because you want to, or because of a reward? (WORSHIPPING GOD NOT THE SAME AS SIMPLY "DOING GOOD") Isn't the whole reason you worship God a matter of Him bringing purpose to your life (selfish, though laudible), rather than straight up gratitude? If God didn't serve a puropse for you would you care about him? It wouldn't make you a "bad person", but it's certainly more than just "gratitude".

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

Sunchild

Fair is fair and Tinkerbell is my eternal saviour.

Gravedancer, if your belief in Tinkerbell enhances your life and helps you find meaning... if you can enjoy that belief without forcing it on other people or looking down on them for believing differently... then I say, MORE POWER TO YOU.

*Rochelle.

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"I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death -- if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach."
-- Professor Severus Snape, Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone.

DanielHaase

SUNCHILD is BEAUTIFUL! And that's all I have to say.

Ya'll dont believe in God?

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