Were any of you anointed?

by TimothyT 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tec

    Because it was not a message the apostles and the early church taught.

    Why did you change your original answer?

    And also, please see my above post (the scripture that are Christ's words)



  • Perry

    Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." —John 20:23

    The Greek word for "remit" is "aphiemi" and means "to send away."

    According to VINE'S COMPLETE EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT WORDS (pg. 522)...Scripture makes clear that the Lord's words could not have been intended to bestow the exercise of absolution, which Scripture declares is the prerogative of God alone. There is no instance in the New Testament of this act on the part of the Apostles. The words are to be understood in a declarative sense; the statement has regard to the effects of their ministry of the Gospel, with its twofold effects of remission and retention.

    Clearly, John 20:23 doesn't teach that men have the power to forgive sin. Even the unsaved Pharisees knew this... "And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

  • Perry


    There is certainly no scriptural basis for anyone who has heard the gospel and rejected it to be shown mercy. There is all sorts of "what if" scenarios like what if Jesus meets someone on the way to hell and offers them one last chance? What if someone never heard of Jesus etc, etc, etc. I personally believe that any number of things can be done by God to save whomever he wishes to make part of the New Covenant which is for the forgiveness of sins.

    But, this kind of speculation isn't wise to preach because it wasn't an early church message at all.

  • AGuest

    Greetings... and may you all have peace! Some clarifications, if I may? Thank you!

    1. ALL who profess to follow Christ are supposed to be faithful... even in what is least. In that light, all such ones would partake of his flesh and blood... because he said to do so... that his flesh was true food and his blood true drink... and that UNLESS one did so, one did not have life WITHIN oneself. It is that life... holy spirit... which such ones receive FROM the Life... Christ... that allows him TO resurrect them (in the "first" resurrection)... AND for them to live forever.

    2. Although all should partake (heed the invitation)... not ALL will be CHOSEN (receive holy spirit)... which is the "anointing" that MAINFESTS such choosing. "Many are CALLED... few are CHOSEN."

    3. The anointing is the "sealing" that such one receives... the "token" of the future time when they WILL receive "white robes"... "clean OUTER garments" which is the incorruptible SPIRIT body... that replaces the corruptible body of flesh. It CAN be revoked... however, for one reason only: blasphemy against the glorified Christ, the Holy Spirit. All other transgressions can be forgiven. Even denying Christ (as Peter did).

    4. Those who are "chosen" are chosen to be part of the "holy nation" of kings and priests... who rule with Christ for "1,000" years. Such ones rule OVER others who later also receive "white robes"... NOT because of an anointing (which is done ONLY for kings and priests)... but because of the "good" they do to Christ's brothers (including a least one... which would be even the worse Jew).

    5. These "others" are the "sheep" who are separated from those who did NOT do "good" to even a least one of Christ's brothers (called "goats"... and constituting "Gog").

    6. The anointing is ALWAYS manifested. Always. By one or more GIFTS... OF that spirit (holy spirit, the breath/blood/semen (seed) of the Most Holy One of Israel)... which includes knowledge, wisdom, healing, powerful works, prophesying, tongues, interpretation of tongues, discerning (hearing/telling the difference between) spirit beings, etc.

    7. Those who partook while IN the WTBTS (as I did)... were merely being "called". As either dear tec or perhaps dear Awen commented (the greatest of love and peace to you both!)... they heard the CALL... and manifested their RESPONSE... by partaking; however, this does NOT constituted an anointing. Indeed, the Apostles all ate and drank BEFORE receiving holy spirit. Some received holy spirit BEFORE eating and drinking. They are NOT one and the same. That those who still IN say that "anointed"... is IMPOSSIBLE. Because one must QUIT TOUCHING THE UNCLEAN THING... FIRST... and THEN they are taken in as sons and daughters. Because such one CANNOT have a sharing with Christ... AND with Belial; there is NO union between Light (Christ)... and Darkness (Death, the King of the "Pit")... which is where the blind guides of the WTBTS are LEADING those who follow THEM (the blind). BOTH... are headed toward the pit.

    8. Can one ask for and receive holy spirit? Yes. God does not withhold His spirit from those asking... however, such one must ask... in FAITH. Not just that they will RECEIVE it... but faith in the One who GIVES it (the Son - the One from whose "innermost parts" such "living water" flows). Faith that, although he died... he LIVES... and SPEAKS... and grants LIFE... to those putting their faith IN him.

    9. The only difference between the 144,000 and the "great crowd"... is their origin: the first are "from among the sons of ISRAEL". They are "sealed" by an anointing... in order to ENSURE the promise made to Abraham (that HIS seed would constitute this nation of kings and priests). Since most of Abraham's seed rejected the LEADER of that nation... God turned His attention AWAY from Israel... and replaced them with people... OF THE NATIONS. TOGETHER, these... the 144,000 from among the sons of Israel... AND the great crowd of out EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people... make a HOLY NATION, a CHOSEN "race" of people... who serve as kings AND priests... in the "temple" of God.

    10. That "temple"... is made up of PEOPLE... starting with Christ as the "Cornerstone" and "Main Gate"... the Apostles as the "foundations" and lesser "gates"... the Prophets and others as "pillars"... and the rest as "living stones." The purpose of this "temple" is to be "house"... a DWELLING place... for the spirit of GOD. Thus, He dwells IN... these people.

    11. That "temple" is also referred to as "city"... and a "bride": NEW Jerusalem. "She" become the new "City" (house/habitate/dwelling place) of God. There is no temple IN the City (as there was in earthly Jerusalem)... because GOD and CHRIST are the "temple" (the MOST Holy... and the HOLY)... within her. "They" are the "places" THROUGH (the Holy)... and INTO (the MOST Holy) which those who approach God must "go."

    12. While one's blood cannot ATONE for one's sins (so that one can receive LIFE... particularly after one has died - only the blood of Christ can do that)... one CAN COVER one's sins... through love. Love "covers" a multitude of transgressions. Love is displayed through mercy, forgiveness, pity, compassion, generosity, peace, faith... and other "fruits" of God's holy spirit. Death is the PAYMENT for sin, but life is a GIFT... from God). If one does not receive that "gift"... one does not receive LIFE after death. Rather, they are resurrected... to judgment (and condemnation to everlasting death... or the "second" death).

    13. Being anointed does make one "special"... but only in the sense that such one now becomes the SERVANT... of all others. Including... his/her enemies. They realize they are not "better"... but actually "least"... while in THIS life. This is because UNLIKE other [false] gods... the Most Holy One of Israel... IS A GOD OF SERVICE. In order to hold off their enemies, the ancient Israelites made Him a god of exaction, a demanding entity that punished error. Christ, the Holy One of Israel, however, came to "bear witness to the TRUTH"... and revealed the MOST Holy One of Israel as being "slow to anger", "merciful", and "ABUNDANT in loving kindness." Which are things He expects of those who will serve as kings and priests in His "temple."

    14. God is love... however, His love is NOT unconditional. There most certainly are conditions, starting with the fact that you must love HIM, as well as your neighbor... as well as your enemy. He does not expect anyone to love Him without KNOWING Him, however... and that is why He sent His Son... that through that One... the "image" of God and "exact representation" of His being... we COULD know God. By LOOKING AT CHRIST... we can "see" God... because we can see God THROUGH him: through HIS (Christ's) "works"... as well as the works he develops in US... and the gifts we receive (via holy spirit) from him.

    15. The anointing is NOT a mystery - it can... and SHOULD... be explained by any who receive it. What POINT is there in receiving such a wonderful gift... and yet, being unable to explain/manifest it to others? The gift OF holy spirit... and ITS gifts... are not something to be hidden under a basket. To the contrary, those who possess it are to let it SHINE. One way of doing that is to USE it... by using the gifts one receives as a RESULT of it. Does that mean going around prophesying "just because"? Or running about healing willy-nilly? Or speaking in tongues that no one understands/can interpret? No. Because the gifts have a PURPOSE: they are for the "raising" of the TEMPLE... the BUILDING UP... of the BODY of Christ. So, it is for UNBELIEVERS... who TRULY wish to become BELIEVERS - they are manifestations that allow the one claiming to possess the FREE gift of holy spirit... to SHOW that they indeed have such gift.

    16. Which is why you don't hear of CREDIBLE manifestations of gifts such as healing, powerful works, tongues (which are NOT gibberish, but actually human dialects!), etc. Because those who possess such gifts ARE "discreet"... and use them ONLY to build up the Body (of Christ)... and not to earn profit or make a name for themselves. It is not a PUBLIC affair... but merely tools to help others gain faith where they lack faith... and/or to glorify God and Christ. It is NEVER about the one possessing the gift. EVER. Nor it is about those who receive the benefits.

    17. Eating and drinking "unworthily" has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether one is "anointed" or not. Again, some ate and drank before receiving holy spirit, some after. It is about being CLEAN... on the INSIDE... while doing so (so as not to eat and drink judgment against ONESELF)... as well as doing so for the related PURPOSE: discernment that it represents the BODY and BLOOD of CHRIST... and NOT just some mere bread and grape "juice" that one can gulp down because they're physically hungry... or dismiss because they've alread eaten, etc.

    18. That when one partakes, one is symbolizing their "ratifciation" the NEW Covenant they are agreeing to be a part of... which ratification takes place when they are "sprinkled" with the "blood" of [the Lamb]. By eating the bread, they are manifesting that they UNDERSTAND that Christ... is the TREE OF LIFE... and that it is the "leaves" of this Tree... the "TRUE Vine"... "Root of Jesse"... "Sprout!"... that will serve as a "CURING"... for their flesh AND spirit... so that they CAN live forever. By drinking the wine... they are manifesting that they UNDERSTAND... that it is the "blood" of Christ... HOLY SPIRIT... which "cleanses" their sins... and BLOTS OUT their transgressions. They are symbolizing a UNION with Christ... which union CAN result in being a part of the kingship/priesthood... but will certainly result in their being IN the kingdom. I say "can"... because simply eating and drinking bread and wine does NOT constitute a "union" with Christ... IF, as dear Awen said... one does not demonstrate one's faith IN Christ... AND that symbolization... by "obeying" HIS commandments... to love, be merciful, forgive, etc. Ones who do so eat and drink... but remain hard-headed, hard-hearted, and stiff-necked... who shut the door of their tender compassion on others... who judge and condemn (although they, too, exist in sin)... are "eating and drinking judgment" against themselves.

    19. Who should eat and drink? ALL who profess a union with Christ. Who are "anointed"? Any who are CHOSEN... by means of an anointing with holy spirit. How many are they? At least 144,000 from among the sons of Israel... AND a "great crowd" from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people... which no MAN is able to number. WHY should anyone eat and drink? First, love. For the One who gave his flesh and blood FOR us to eat and drink. Second, in order to REMAIN in union with that One. Third... so that one has life... in oneself. Which one receives... THROUGH such union.

    20. There are no "substitutes." There are 144,000 from among the sons of Israel... and the Most Holy One of Israel knows who these are... as well as a great crowd from every nation, etc. The WTBTS teaching of the co-rule being limited to 144,000 is false... and their teaching that new ones are "replacements" is... ridiculous. The great crowd are also "bought" by Christ with his blood to be a "nation of kings and priests" ( Revelation 5:9, 10)... and if the number was only 144,000 and there were replacements... the WTBTS number... WOULD NOT CHANGE (one out/one in - duh!). They try to justify the former with the verses in Revelation 14 where only the 144,000 were able to master the "new" song. That has nothing to do with the number of kings/priests but only with Israel itself. They try to justify the latter by saying that someone "evidently" fell away in their heart... and while they (the WTBTS) may not know it, God does... and so it might appear that someone is anointed but is not. NONE who are in are... yet. Again, they only responded to the CALL. Otherwise, they could not only explain their anointing... but manifest it in SOME way (not necessarily healing or tongues, etc., but some way).

    I hope this helps!

    Again, may you ALL have peace... and may you be granted to ears to hear, if you so wish them... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

    "Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

    Because it IS a free gift... for any and all who exercise faith... in the One so granting it, the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and the One HE sent to dispense it... His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).

    Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ, the Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH,

    SA, who was awoken and directed to post this at about 2am, so if there are misspelled/mistated words, please forgive - I typed really fast, so...

    P.S. While I did partake while in the WTBTS (and so professed to be "of the anointed")... I did not receive a literal anointing ("sealing")... until about 2-3 months after leaving. ALL who are anointed are "sealed"... including the great crowd; however, the "way" is held open... and the "four winds" held back... until the "sealing" of those "from among the sons of Israel" has been completed. As of yet, that number had not been completed. In addition, once the "full number" of the NATIONS has come in... then the REST of Israel... yes, ALL of them... are also brought in.

  • N.drew

    Thank you AGuest for posting. You type very well. I noticed no errors and I agree with most, or all of what you say. It looks like to me it is very much on target. Which is a miracle in and of itself! The doubters want proof, but what they really want is magic. I believe the children of God can see power in the word, it is too bad for them who allow themselves to be mis-led. May you also have peace! In Jesus Christ's name there is glory and peace. AGuest, keep on the quest! You hope it helps? It helps me, thanks!

  • tec

    Clearly, John 20:23 doesn't teach that men have the power to forgive sin. Even the unsaved Pharisees knew this... "And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

    No, Perry. It is not so clear at all. It sounds like an eXcuse. As for the Pharisees, well, they had more than a few things wrong, didn't they? God gave Christ the power and authority - including the authority to forgive sins, to heal, to lay down his life and take it up again, etc.

    "So you know that the Son of MAN has the power to forgive sins..."

    According to John 20:23 (you asked for an NT verse... I prefer to ask Christ myself, to be certain I am putting my faith in the right One), Christ then gave the power to forgive sins to those who have the Holy Spirit. Christ also said that any who do good to even the 'least of these', his brothers, will be welcomed into the Kingdom. God can also show mercy upon whomever He wishes. And as Shelby reminded us above (peace and love to you), love also covers over a multitude of sins.

    In any case, the best way clear any misunderstanding up (mine or yours), is to go to Christ and ask Him. Because He is alive. If we depend on written words that are in conflict (or may mean this, no it must mean that), then we are treating Him as if He is dead.

    Shelby, thank you!

    Greatest love and peace to you, and to all,


  • Awen

    @ Shelby and Tams

  • LongHairGal


    I agree with your comment that the JW religion has made "anointed" into some elitist nonsense. I also totally agree that it is very much AKIN to praying in public so that others may look on and be impressed.

    Nobody there ever got any special respect from me. I didn't care what they thought about themselves OR what anybody else thought about them. The whole thing was so much hogwash to me. Nowadays, I suspect the number is increasing because some people see it as "graduating" and they are climbing the "social ladder" in the religion. Maybe they hope it will translate into some benefits for them.

  • AGuest

    Greetings... and peace to you all, again! I need to clarify a few more things, if I may:

    Eating and drinking does NOT give one holy spirit - it merely demonstrates one's faith and obedience... so that one might RECEIVE holy spirit... and there is no reason why one should not so receive... except, for example, as with Judas... due to what is IN one when one so eats and drinks. If one is has "prepared" one's heart... and one is working on cleansing the INSIDE of the "cup" (the "man" one is on the INSIDE of the vessel that is the body of flesh)... then one becomes a vessel FIT for God's spirit to occupy. As such, one can receive "God" (and Christ)... by means of receiving their breath and blood INTO one. They "come and make their abode (dwell) IN such one."

    If, however, one is "full of dead men's bones"... the spirit of God CANNOT dwell in such a vessel - the vessel is "unholy" and thus unfit for the dwelling of God's spirit. A vessel "full of dead men's bones" is one that "houses" a spirit of DISOBEDIENCE and rebellion. Not disobedience, as man views it... but as God and Christ view it: the REFUSAL to soften one's heart so as to be forgiving, merciful, loving, kind, peaceful, faithful, etc. That's why such are called/considered hard-HEADED, hard-HEARTED, and STIFF-necked.

    So, simply eating and drinking is not, in and of itself... an indication that one IS in union with Christ, let alone called and/or chosen.

    Also, to help you understand, dear Perry (peace to you!), if you still do not after dear tec's (the greatest of love and peace to you, too!) explanation... Christ was given ALL authority. But he had authority to forgive sins... even before that. Which is why he often said to those he healed, etc., "Your sins are forgiven." When he was questioned as to such statements, his reply was, "Which is easier? To say pick up your cot... or your sins are forgiven?" Since they didn't give him credence for forgiving sins... he then ALSO stated, "Pick up your cot...".

    When he became king, however, he was literally given ALL authority... ALL that the Most Holy One of Israel had... except with regard to authority over the Most Holy One of Israel Himself. In that light, he has authority not ONLY to forgive sins... but over the RESULT of sin: death. He has that authority by means of the "spirit" of God that is IN him... holy spirit... which spirit he also gave... and gives... to those who belong to him.

    And that is why such ones CAN... and not only SHOULD... but MUST... go "releasing." We have such power. We can "release" others from their sins... simply by wanting to. Because it is what we would want others to do for us. Rather than judge, then, we, too, must be MERCIFUL... and let people know that not only does God not hold their error in mind... but neither do we. Often, then, rather than saying, "Pick up your cot and walk," we say, "Go your way... in peace; your sin HAS BEEN FORGIVEN you."

    Because if WE forgive the sins of others... WE are forgiven OUR sins; however, if we do NOT forgive others' sins... neither will OUR sins be forgiven. Because we will have shown ourselves NOT to be like Christ... but rather, those who are hard-headed, hard-hearted, and stiff-necked... and thus UNFIT vessels.

    Again, I hope this helps... and again, bid you all peace!

    Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

    SA... who bids the greatest of love and peace to dear Awen... and to you all!...


    Good morning Shelby!..

    Get spell check and you can spell check an entire post with the click of a button..


Share this