Were any of you anointed? (page 6)

tec

And this one:

"And if anyone gives a cup of cold water to one of hese little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."

"then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for yu since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat... Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink... The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

Peace,

Tammy

Perry

Tammy,

Jesus words are going to be extremely important to the tribulation-era saints. This is who I believe he is addressing here. The scripture that we used to quote to promote a works based salvation is also one I believe Jesus was directing to the tribulation Jews/Saints: "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved"

Perry

Christ asked his father to forgive those who had betrayed and tortured and killed him. They were also not part of the New Covenant.

How do you know this? Perhaps they were converted before they died? Perhaps, because "they knew not what they were doing", God forgave them for that specific sin but not the other sins that they commited that they were aware of.

tec

Jesus words are going to be extremely important to the tribulation-era saints. This is who I believe he is addressing here.

Yes, well, this is your interpretation of His words. You asked for NT quotes showing how forgiveness of sins could be earned without being part of the New Covenant (by which I believe you mean professing Christ), and those are some scriptures from the NT that show what you asked. Anyone can put their own spin on them, and everyone has an interpretation.

I choose to take Him at His word here.

But instead of doing that, one could always ask Christ, Himself, what He meant.

Jesus, was not saying that a person without a sin-atoning contract could get their own sins forgiven just by forgiving others, otherwise he died for nothing.

I don't think so. He remained loyal to His father even to death. He forgave his enemies, even to death. Both of these show us the Way we also ought to live. He paid the price of sin for all of us, so that we might have life. (yes, this to those who belong to Him and are a part of the New Covenant) But he also showed that anyone who does good to even the least of his brothers has done good to Him, and will not lose his reward. Before you say that he spoke just of his 'blood' brothers of Israel, I would remind you that it is "He who does the will of my father in heaven who is my brother, sister, mother." Those are His words.

Besides all of this: "God desires mercy, not sacrifice." And God may have mercy upon whomever He wishes. WE should have mercy on everyone, if we desire to have mercy from God to us.

Peace,

Tammy

tec

How do you know this? Perhaps they were converted before they died? Perhaps, because "they knew not what they were doing", God forgave them for that specific sin but not the other sins that they commited that they were aware of.

That's a lot of 'perhaps's', Perry, lol. Regardless, they were not converted at the time Christ asked for them to be forgiven. He did not say, forgive them later when they convert, because right now they don't know what they're doing.

Peace,

Tammy

Perry

Tammy,

Jesus was sent to God's covenant people.

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. - Jesus

These people already had a sin-atoning contract in hand. Either way, simply forgiving others cannot atone for our sin. Like I said, otherwise Christ died for nothing.

" if righteousness be through law -- then Christ died in vain."

But he also showed that anyone who does good to even the least of his brothers has done good to Him, and will not lose his reward.

And, what is that reward? Is it the same as salvation? Or is it just entry into the kingdom as a survivor of the GT? It is not clear and certainly cannot be used to deny other copiously abundant scriptures to the contrary.

Before you say that he spoke just of his 'blood' brothers of Israel, I would remind you that it is "He who does the will of my father in heaven who is my brother, sister, mother." Those are His words.

And can you (or anyone else) do the will of the father without being born again which follows New Covenant membership? Of course not. Romans 3 settles that:

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written °, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

tec

And, what is that reward? Is it the same as salvation? Or is it just entry into the kingdom as a survivor of the GT? It is not clear and certainly cannot be used to deny other copiously abundant scriptures to the contrary.

Well, I don't know about you, Perry, but entry into the Kingdom under any 'status' sounds pretty good. What would that be other than salvation? Even to be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven, most would be grateful.

These people already had a sin-atoning contract in hand.

Well, a promise from God, to Abraham about his descendants, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by sin-atoning contract though. Nothing they had could atone for their sins (otherwise they would not have had to continue making sacrifices that could NOT cleanse them, but that the law required them to make... for a time. But the law was just a shadow of what was to come. Or rather, Who was to come).

Even so, Christ still asked His Father to forgive them. Pre-New-Covenant.

Either way, simply forgiving others cannot atone for our sin. Like I said, otherwise Christ died for nothing.

Atone for our sin? No. But grant us forgiveness due to God's mercy, and also His justice... why not? And again, God can show mercy to anyone He wants. I don't think Christ would complain about too MUCH mercy, do you?

And can you (or anyone else) do the will of the father without being born again which follows New Covenant membership? Of course not. Romans 3 settles that:

Romans 3 is Paul trying to teach people that Jews are no better than Gentiles.

What of people who have the law written on their heart (even the new law, of love), as Paul also spoke of? What of those people who do all the things Christ taught - love neighbor, love enemy, feed the hungry, help the sick, clothe the naked, house the poor? But who do not know Christ? Perhaps (as the parable of the sheep and goats suggest), even though they did not know Christ, HE knew THEM?

Peace,

Tammy

tec

Just found another one:

"Receive the Holy Spirit. If you (his brothers and sisters) forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven". John 20:23

Peace,

Tammy

Perry

Nothing they had could atone for their sins (otherwise they would not have had to continue making sacrifices that could NOT cleanse them,

The animal sacrifices did retroactively (by faith) atone for their past sin. The hands were placed upon the head of theanimal and sins confessed before slaughter. The sin died with the animal. The death penalty was vicariously carried out..... picturing Jesus much later.

But, without being born again with the sinless spirit of God, they had to keep doing it for future sins. This not the case for New Covenant believers. "Christ died once for all time"

Atone for our sin? No. But grant us forgiveness due to God's mercy, and also His justice... why not?

Because it was not a message the apostles and the early church taught.

Were any of you anointed?

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