The Value of a Godless World

by cantleave 109 Replies latest jw friends

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  EntirelyPossible

  History has shown us what happens when we misapply "god"( inquisition)

  er, no, they used exactly the values that were in the bible. Kill em all.... That's what happens WITH god and an inflated need for absolute power.

  when we remove "god" (Communisim) and in both cases, it is NOT a desirable outcome is it?

  er, no, that's what happens when the state uses brutality to crush anything they see as competition.

  In either case, it takes very bad people to do those things. It just seems that when God is in the mix, it happens a lot more easily and often.

  A godless world will only be a place where one can live if the "godlike' values are still there.

  Er, no, killing, slavery, murder of homosexuals, treating women as property, god eternally punishing those that don't stroke his ego....we can do just fine without those value.
• 

  sizemik

  If thinking right and living right means I have got P. Sacs god in my life, even though I see no evidence for him/her, then O.K

  I wonder if this is actually the most legitimate connection with our spirituality that there is.

  Humans love to see everything as transcendental and seperate from themselves . . . and then to give it a name and a label. It's little removed IMO from carving a God out of a piece of wood and bowing down to it as scorned by Isaiah.

  If the physical world can be even loosley acknowledged as an expression of some divinity (something greater than ourselves). . . then living in harmony with it cannot be transcendental or seperate . . . it can only be truly found in the core of our existence . . . as intrisic . . . but recognised and revealed by a way of living and relating to the world around us.

  This can be the one common theme that connects the goodness in all people who value goodness. If how they recognised it remained personal to them . . . so what? . . . if the outcome results in a natural harmony for all? If each and every person found their own path to this state . . . and there were as many paths as people, it wouldn't really matter. After all . . . we are all different . . . no escaping that.
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  PSacramento

  er, no, they used exactly the values that were in the bible. Kill em all.... That's what happens WITH god and an inflated need for absolute power.

  Yes, because nowhere in the bible will you find the commandment to love and pray for your enemies...

  er, no, that's what happens when the state uses brutality to crush anything they see as competition.

  In either case, it takes very bad people to do those things. It just seems that when God is in the mix, it happens a lot more easily and often.

  Really? seems to be the opposite case.

  Er, no, killing, slavery, murder of homosexuals, treating women as property, god eternally punishing those that don't stroke his ego....we can do just fine without those value.

  Why? what makes those things so wrong to you?

  I mean is there anything wrong with exploting the weak, the strong taking what they want? and if you feel that is wrong, why would you think that?
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  THE GLADIATOR

  There is nothing wrong with the natural world and never has been, how could there be? There is no bench mark to measure it against. Life simply does what it has to in order to survive. It is a cruel organic world where all matter is recycled including living animals. This involves larger creatures devouring smaller creatures often while still alive. It has always been thus.

  Humans have created an artificial world that despite its benefits is not without its problems. It's convenient for humans to pretend that an invisible god is responsible for all the good and the bad in the world. Instead of humans seeking a solution to the world’s problems from their various gods they need to realize that they are the world’s problem.

  Forgive me but it's Friday and throwing my coin in the ring makes me feel alive!
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  PSacramento

  After all . . . we are all different . . . no escaping that.

  We are all created in Gods image:

  We all love and want to be loved, we all want to be at peace and have joy and happiness.

  We know it is wrong to hurt others and we know, deep down, it is right to love each other.

  We are, where it matters most, all the same.
• 

  sizemik

  We are, where it matters most, all the same.

  If you look closely at my post . . . this is what I'm saying . . . it's this commonality that is either recognised or supressed. It's how we come to recognise it for ourselves that must be different because we think different . . . unless we're all plugged in to a central computer.
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  PSacramento

  I was agreeing with you Mike, sorry that wasn't clear.

  When a religion supresses that commanlity it is going against the very core of the view that God created us ALL in HIs image and they tend to do that when they are trying to control the masses via human doctrine.

  As people WE must "speak up" and say, No, you are wrong.

  We can either accept that we are no more than "human animals" guided by self-preservation and self-propegation or that there is MORE to this than meets the eye.
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  sizemik

  We can either accept that we are no more than "human animals" guided by self-preservation and self-propegation or that there is MORE to this than meets the eye.

  It could be argued that there has to be . . . otherwise the rules of "self" would dominate naturally and without question.
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  PSacramento

  Indeed sizemik, indeed.
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  EntirelyPossible

  Yes, because nowhere in the bible will you find the commandment to love and pray for your enemies...

  Right before "and if they don't worship god like we do he will kill them all in horrific ways".

  Really? seems to be the opposite case.

  Inquisition, crusades, slavery, beating up gay people in the name of god....

  Why? what makes those things so wrong to you?

  My internal moral code.

  I mean is there anything wrong with exploting the weak, the strong taking what they want? and if you feel that is wrong, why would you think that?

  Because I have an internal moral code, not because of God or Jesus.