Sleeping with the enemy

by Nickolas 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nickolas

    I have been wondering of late about the extent to which JWN's minions (one of whom I am beginning to see myself to some extent) differentiate the machine from its parts. What I mean is, what degree of separation is discerned between the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and its individual members?

    Henry Milner, who is a polical scientist at the University of Montreal, posits that those who rely heavily on the internet for their information ultimately become dogmatic. He states specifically that such users "are interested in fewer subjects and have more extreme views on those subjects." There is a flavour of that in here. As a context to the question above, I wonder how many of us who post in here belong to and contribute to other, unrelated forums and how many spend a lot of their waking time in just this one.

    But I'm wandering off topic. My feelings and perspectives towards the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society are decidedly negative. If I am to personalise those negatives it would be in the names of Samuel Herd, Geoffrey Jackson, M. Stephen Lett, Gerrit Lösch, Anthony Morris, Guy H. Pierce and David H. Splane. My antipathy toward these men is real, though I have never met them, though I have read very little of what they have to say. But I know them through their works because their works are those of the Watchtower. I accuse them and their predecessors of hypocrisy, hubris and capriciousness. I accuse these men of causing the deaths of innocents through their nonsensical policies on vaccination, organ transplant and blood transfusion. I accuse them and their predecessors of causing the rape and murder in Malawi for want of an official piece of paper while simulaneously winking at parallel practices in Mexico. I accuse them of causing millions to squander their lives waiting for an Armageddon that will never come. I accuse them of tearing apart families through their disfellowshipping and shunning policies and I accuse them of fostering and encouraging such outcomes through their practice of child baptism. On down the line of the power structure of the Society, I accuse Don Adams, the Committee heads and members, the branch office committee members, the travelling overseers, the elders and the ministerial servants of decreasing degrees of complicity in the crimes committed by the Governing Body.

    But here I draw the line. I have had unsatisfactory secular experiences with a small number of Jehovah's Witnesses. Against the frequency of similar experiences generally, the ratio seems about right. I have had a great many unsatisfactory experiences of a non-secular nature with Jehovah's Witnesses as well, but that is a function of the frequencey of exposure as well as my own flawed approach to these interacations. Substitute the Jehovah's Witness flavour with some other fundamentalist religious group and it would be the same. But I have had a great many satisfactory secular experiences with individual Jehovah's Witnesses too, many of whom are well aware that I am atheist and who, outwardly at least, seem to respect it. They will not talk to me about matters of faith, so they have drawn lines in the sand too, but neither do they prosthelytise. They are, in other words, just people to me. But it is apparent to me that there are some of us in here who see them as the enemy. I have been guilty of that too, but no longer. I do not see the rank and file as the enemy. I, in fact, sleep with one.

    The Watchtower is the enemy. Without the rank and file the Watchtower crumbles. If you loathe the Watchtower and long to see it dismantled then it is counterintuitive to treat its individual members as the enemy, because that succeeds only in entrenching them and it will not, under any circumstances, influence them toward a more balanced perspective of reality.

    The next time a Jehovah's Witness knocks at your door will be an opportunity to cause damage to the Watchtower and your most effective weapon will be reasonableness and courtesy. Rather than debate, which you already know you will lose to cognitive dissonance, aim to plant a small seed of doubt. In your everyday associations with Jehovah's Witnesses who are within your personal circle of concern do the same, then patiently and lovingly nurture it in hopes that it will sprout. It may not, but it is a better strategy than most, if not all, alternatives.


    Good Morning Nickolas!..

    Your one of the few who understands the Difference between JW`s and the WBT$..

    Most JW`s don`t understand the Difference..

    I have patience for all but the most militant..They want your Head on a Stick..


  • leavingwt

    They treat you with respect because you were never baptized.

    Forgive us if we don't have fond feelings about our spiritual rapists.

    Individually, all adult humans deserve to be treated with the dignity and the respect that they earn.

    I have no desire to dismantle the WT. I'm glad to have escaped and I've helped several more exit. If others have a desire to leave, perhaps I can assist.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    I have to agree that we need to separate the two. One is an organization. The other is a group of people who have been manipulated into beliving a never-ending set of lies and half-truths.

    But like everywhere else there are good and bad. There really are some JWs who try to enforce the letter of the law regarding WTS policies, forgetting that Christ repremanded the Scribes and Pharisees for that exact thing while they forgot about mercy and love.

    I do know some godd JWs. I tried my best to be one (unsuccessfully). But I also know there are some that like the power a little too much. I think we need to make that distinction too. Some would be toxic even if they weren't JWs.

  • mankkeli

    Nickolas- Those men you mentioned are not the problem. They are also victims of the organisation's illusion, they are victims of the destructive policies that has brought untimely death to many rank and file. What do I mean?

    Of all the current GB members, Gerrit Losch has been serving the longest, he was invited from the Austrian branch in 1991 to serve on the GB. Before then, He had served as a special pioneer, missionary, and in various capacities of the full time service. Thesame goes for the rest of the GB members, some were travelling overseers, special pioneers, missionaries and et al., they were all humbly serving the rganisation before rising to the apex of the organogram.

    Their initial motive was not to create a destructive construct and ruin the lives of many God-searching people over the promise of a sham paradise, their motive was similar to what the rank and file had when they were seeking "the truth", their intention was to serve God faithfully the best way they knew. Now upon climbing the ladder, they have little control over how things had been done over the years. They just have to follow the status quo. To say the obvious, I feel more pity for these men considering all the sacrificies they have made.

    All the current GB members are all victims of victims, they are all caught up in this mess, even if anyone of them discover means of overturning long-held destructive belief, He had to do it cautiously.

    Aside these men, there are many decision makers in the background, many of which we dont know of, their non-annointing status has kept their voice low. But they are equally front-liners in policy making. All these men are not the enemy, they are all victims. This religious brand is eschatological in structure, as we can see, their obsession with the end of the world is very high, It also informs how many of them live their lifes. It is the strategy that keeps the publishing company. Therefore, their spiritual oligarchs need to maintain policies to keep this eschatological views, that view is the captive holding all the JWs down, if they unveil the truths about their dogmas, everyone will loose, it wont benefit anyone, including those high-ranking members who have spent decades in the organisation. It is same as removing the burqa from a muslim woman in public. All her dignities are considered to be lost.

    In a nutshell, these men are as innocent as me and you. They are doing the best of what they knew at the moment.

  • Nickolas

    I seem to have hit a nerve, Donny. I have seen you assist admirably in here. I am sure you agree that militancy goes both ways, OUTLAW, but the Watchtower has it down to a fine art. (and I thank you sincerely for the compliment.) There are several Jehovah's Witnesses who I dislike intensely, Lady Lee, out of proportion to the number of people who rankle generally. I recognise those people in the posts I read in here about abuses of influence and power, but there are many more in my circle of importance who are indeed good people. My wife is a genuinely good person. She contributes to charities, buys and offers hot meals to homeless people she happens to meet in cities and treats everyone, Witness or otherwise, with respect, kindness and enthusiasm. She seems also capable of attracting like minded people in her cong, because those are the kinds of people she has befriended as we moved around the country. I fully acknowledge that she is rare, not only perhaps amongst Jehovah's Witnesses but generally. Mankkeli, I do not agree with you. While this latest post of yours is the most effectively articulated so far, your logic is off. The buck has to stop somewhere, and this is where it stops. That is not to say that the advisers to the GB who run the 7 committees don't have an influence on them, of course they do, but it is they and the men who they succeeded who call the shots. They are no more victims than all the men and women who were hanged at Nuremburg.

  • leavingwt

    Nick: The JWs that I knew would leave today, if they knew what you and I know. I was a good person when I was a JW. I wad also peddling a death-dealing message to people. I've forgiven myself. I sincerely believed that I was doing god's will.

    I apologize for my tone, earlier.

    Further, I don't think anyone here views your wife as a bad person.

  • Nickolas

    Same page, Donny.

  • Violia

    You are in a special position, Nick. You are the unbelieving mate of someone obviously well liked. I also can tell you have a nice life, eg, are not poor and are well educated , as I imagine your wife is also. They want you Nick and they hope if they remain nice to you you will come over to their side. You also serve as a buffer between the elders influence on your wife. I have read your posts enough to know your wife and you have a better relationship than a lot of jws marriages. You are not allowing them to come between you and your wife, but if you were an elder , you would be answering to their whims too.

    You post is almost insulting to all of us . Look at the board and all the threads- Do we all just have a bad attitude and you and and your wives cong well-you guys got it all worked out? We have listened to you grieve and worry about your wife and all of us have tried to be supportive but now suddenly you see it all so clearly- we just have a bad attitude--most likely die to spending too much time one these boards.

    Many of us are angry , Nick, and rightfully so .Myself it is both the wts and some jws. Not all jws are nice and good hearted. Some are cold and spiteful. Read the posts of those who parents will not talk to them. How would you feel if that was you? Yes we have to go on with our life, but grieving comes in stages and anger is one of them. We come here to vent and cry and commiserate and get validation that we were not alone.

    It is too easy to just say don't blame the jws, only blame the wts. Some of us have had terrible abuse, more than others. It is not that anyone wants to wallow in it, but we were silenced for so long. We did not have this freedom to speak in the congo as we do here.

    You were straight on that some congos are more abusive and toxic than others. Some of us did not make it out alive. Your wife is lucky to have you to protect her from them.


    Good Afternoon Nickolas..

    I am sure you agree that militancy goes both ways..


    Usually it`s an ExJW who can`t seperate JW`s From the WBT$..

    I`m thinking of the "not so kind" JW..

    Who knocks on your door to force feed your their religion..

    Fortunately most of my dealings have been with JW`s who were generally good people..

    The Bad ones were usually related to me.



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