Obamageddon has arrived! Investors are heading for the bunker today.

by moshe 96 Replies latest social current

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Beks:

    (1) Fix our trade policies to benefit American workers not multinational corporations. Yes. I have been thinking about this for a long time and I think a reasonably restrictive import tarriff policy can protect U.S. manufacturing against nations like China who do not keep any standards. Free trade is not free when the competitor is paying people 50c an hour and throwing all the wastes into their rivers.

    (2) Raise taxes. No. This is pure class-warfare politics, cannot possibly have any positive result on the market.

    (3) Fix the roads bridges levees etc that are falling apart all over the country. Maybe. It has already been tried - it did not work. It will have no effect on the market or the economy. It does have a good effect on the roads and bridges themselves.

    (4) Make education a priority from pre school to university. Of course. But this is pure political rhetoric and an excuse to increase spending with money which will result in a greater deficit, and no better education. First step would be to break the NEA stranglehold on the system.

    (5) Universal health care. No. Pure left-wing politics again; a great deficit creator and budget buster. Negative effect on the markets. And, it has already been tried (Obamacare 1) and just added to the deficit.

    (6) Alternative energy r and d. No. (assuming you mean a government-funded increase) This is long term at best, if it ever works, and we are facing an immediate crises.

    (7) Focus on quality of life issues here in America (youth centers, green belts, local sports/arts, volunteer opportunities, urban beautification etc etc). No. Our problem is not softy-pillow quality of life issues - our problem is hard budget issues. U.S. is far ahead of almost every other nation on earth in this already. We just need to keep our positionon big financial issues - not silly little social feel-good programs.

    (8) Legalize pot and get serious about crack and meth................................. Maybe. A case could be made for both, but it will do nothing to solve the stock market values or the deficit issues.

    So see there? I actually agreed with you on maybe about 25% of your platform.

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria
    So see there? I actually agreed with you on maybe about 25% of your platform.

    Well aren't you cute! So are you willing to take apart each point? I mean hell, I don't care what you call yourself, let's make this country work again!

    (1) Fix our trade policies to benefit American workers not multinational corporations. Yes. I have been thinking about this for a long time and I think a reasonably restrictive import tarriff policy can protect U.S. manufacturing against nations like China who do not keep any standards. Free trade is not free when the competitor is paying people 50c an hour and throwing all the wastes into their rivers. Not only that, but did you know that they have not reciprocated? They have kept protectionist policies while we have not.

    (2) Raise taxes. No. This is pure class-warfare politics, cannot possibly have any positive result on the market. I think you need to look at history. This is not true. Raising taxes on the top has many positive effects. It adds revenue, it slows commodity trading, and it forces companies to shelter that money in their own business, rather than said trading. This is a huge discussion and will take a lot of facts and figures to hash out. Closing loopholes and lowering rates is another way of addressing this.

    (3) Fix the roads bridges levees etc that are falling apart all over the country. Maybe. It has already been tried - it did not work. It will have no effect on the market or the economy. It does have a good effect on the roads and bridges themselves. When was it tried? If you are talking about the stimulus, you are mostly incorrect. The stimulus was largely tax cuts, given to the states to makeup for budget shortfalls including keeping firemen, police and teachers at work. Now if you are talking about post depression FDR WPA style stuff, well that worked beautifully. Even the Republicans are aware of how infrastructure spending produces jobs and stimulates the economy. Look at the record of those who publicly opposed stimulus, and then privately begged for funds in their district. Siting JOBS. When you give a guy a job, he not only pays taxes, he buys things. Our economy is currently 2/3 consumer spending. That means we need consumers to have money to spend. Period.

    (4) Make education a priority from pre school to university. Of course. But this is pure political rhetoric and an excuse to increase spending with money which will result in a greater deficit, and no better education. First step would be to break the NEA stranglehold on the system. You are merely showing your partisan entrenchment by attacking the NEA. Or saying it's rhetoric to increase spending. You really have no idea what this entails. I don't think I do either. It may need increased funding, it may not. NEA may be a positive, it may not. But a strong educated populace is a good thing for democracy and the economy, and we have been neglecting it for a long time.

    (5) Universal health care. No. Pure left-wing politics again; a great deficit creator and budget buster. Negative effect on the markets. And, it has already been tried (Obamacare 1) and just added to the deficit. LOL, I'm sorry Woods, I don't even think I can discuss this one with you until you are more educated on the subject. Every other AAA rated country on the list has universal health care, "Obamacare" hasn't even been implemented yet, and it's projected to SAVE money. It takes a burden off of small business and they are the actual job creators! Etc. etc. etc. This one is easy.

    (6) Alternative energy r and d. No. (assuming you mean a government-funded increase) This is long term at best, if it ever works, and we are facing an immediate crises. Research and development to get off the Middle Est teat?????????????? This is a simple no brainer dude. Stop giving subsidies to big energy, and start instead subsidizing renewable energy small business etc. Or are you in the biz down there in TX?

    (7) Focus on quality of life issues here in America (youth centers, green belts, local sports/arts, volunteer opportunities, urban beautification etc etc). No. Our problem is not softy-pillow quality of life issues - our problem is hard budget issues. U.S. is far ahead of almost every other nation on earth in this already. We just need to keep our position on big financial issues - not silly little social feel-good programs. Sorry, but you are short sighted. The more of the populace that is producing rather than sucking up resources via prisons, crime prevention, public assistance...............the better we all are as a society. I sat next to a Swiss man on the way home from Zurich, he had a paper and I was hungry for news. Anyway, we got to talking and got on to the subject of the Government helping people with housing etc there. He said "We know that if you don't take care of people they will become sick, emotionally. Causing more expense and burden. We gladly pay more to take care of them". I agree, America has the largest prison population in the world. Why not put that money at the front of lives instead of at the back??? These aren't silly feel good programs, they are forward thinking productive populace programs. You can tax workers, you can't tax prisoners.

    (8) Legalize pot and get serious about crack and meth................................. Maybe. A case could be made for both, but it will do nothing to solve the stock market values or the deficit issues. Crack and Meth are destroying huge segments of the populace. Horrible stuff. Pot is nothing but a less destructive booze. Why not make a few tax bucks on it and take control out of the hands of criminals. Again, having a segment of the population be dependant and worthless as opposed to productive is not good for any of us. Workers pay taxes, drug addicts don't.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Why don't conservatives want everyone to have health care? Do they not care? Do they believe only the rich should get it? Do they understand how the poor and sick cannot purchase insurance on the open market and face desperate choices? Is it not their problem? I know people that simply can't get health care. Do they think that SOMEONE, SOMEHOW covers this necessary thing? Do they think we should simply pull our own weight and pay our bills or otherwise we are dead beats? My 2 day hospital stay cost $60,000. Even if I made $100,000 a year, if I didn't have health insurance, I would be bankrupt.

    How do they sleep at night? How come they are so happy to berate "obamacare" but never EVER come up with their own solution? Perhaps they do have a solution----it's called DIE PLEASE, you're too expensive. I have tried to respect the other side, but they simply won't answer this question. It's immoral that this country doesn't want to take care of it's sick. Well half of them anyway. And when the other half does the moral and humane thing, they rip them to pieces. I am so disgusted right now, with the absolute soulessness of conservatives, I probably shouldn't even post. If any of them would simply tell me their plan for health care, I could start to respect them again. But no---they just bash Obama with no solution of their own. And "obamacare" was a republican plan anyway.

    Just remember this, you are all only one diagnosis away from bankruptcy and chronic money problems. It's your problem too. If it happens, you'll understand how completely horrible it is. I hope it doesn't happen to anyone else, but it will. Will they sacrifice their life for their economic ideology?

    NC

  • garyneal
    garyneal
    So people that are on disability should be kicked off and then given jobs no one else wants to do? interesting. Maybe they can crawl through sewers sucking up crap. That'll teach 'em for getting sick.

    Well, I kind of agree and I kind of disagree. I never said boot all people on disability off but those who abuse it need to be booted off.

    In my family, one of my cousins managed to get disability simply because she could not do math.

    My mother-in-law is on disability and yet she shows no real signs of being disabled. She gets around quite great and she pioneers 70 hours a month.

    Now, there may be mitigating circumstances in even those two cases, but they do illustrate some of the abuses. My aunt has been putting her kids on disability for their entire childhood so she would not have to work. I have a friend who did the same with her kids. Make these otherwise able bodied people work for a living and pay taxes.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I have another suggestion, what about a national sales tax? Pros? Cons?

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria

    Gary I can see that it would be disconcerting to see other taking and not pulling their weight. But the truth is, that this kind of abuse of the system is nothing in comparison to corporate cheats and ultra wealthy loopholes. We all need to raise our eyes a little higher.

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria

    Will they sacrifice their life for their economic ideology?
    NC

    No they will not. Even Ayn Rand used the public dime when the time came. It's all bullshit ideology.

  • moshe
    moshe

    "It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. ----- It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, 'You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it.' No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor., or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle."
    --October 15, 1858 Abraham Lincoln debate at Alton, Illinois

    The working man deserves better than what our government has taken from them for the last 30 years.

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria
    I have another suggestion, what about a national sales tax? Pros? Cons?

    Gary, again I think this focuses on the lower classes instead of where the money is. At the top. We have been funneling money to the top for at least 30 years. It's time we started changing that direction. Anything that puts the burden on the upper percentiles, and gives the lower ones more spending power is good. The opposite is bad. Pure and simple.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    There are abuses in every system. For myself it was incredibly difficult to get SSD. Five doctors filled out the paperwork. I didn't even ask for SSD. I paid for disability insurance for 15 years, because I am responsible. My insurance company forced me to apply for SSD so that they could reduce my benefits by the amount SSD gives me. Yet I paid for that insurance and I'm treated like I'm some kind of parasite on the government. I could have refused to ask the government for help, but my insurance company would have pulled the benefit that I paid for.

    All disabilities aren't evident. If someone sees me, they could conclude I was just fine. But I'm not. On good days I can do a bit. I don't have enough good days. I can't work full time--no way---so I can't get health benefits through work. I can't work part time either, because when a bad day hits, it hits, and there are too many. SSD will allow me to work and make over $600 a month and still let me have benefits. My insurance company will not. If I make one dollar, they will take it from me. Everytime I think I feel better and wonder if my condition has changed, I get slammed again and am down, unable to do my dishes much less work.

    Don't conclude that everyone on disability is content in their plight. I had a great career that I loved. My salary doubled in a few years and I received upgrades and promotions. If I were well and still working, I would have continued to work myself up that ladder. I had sterling credit and own my own home. Illness took all that away. I am tired of the assumption by those that don't understand my condition assuming that I am somehow a deadbeat.

    Some parents seek to secure disability for their children because they can't provide them with health insurance. Perhaps this is an abuse, but they are taking care of their children. Children still die in this country due to lack of health care. If a parent finds a way to secure that for them, I can't say I don't understand.

    Getting sick in this country is a nightmare. Again, let me restate this, I didn't want to ask the government for help. That's why I bought disability insurance all those years ago. I was forced to. BTS made his nasty little comments about me depending on the govt. so I could post here all day. But he's a small minded individual, and yet he is not uncommon. This is an incredibly complex issue and cannot be judged with a broad brush.

    NC

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