Frederick Franz, "Bible Scholar"

by Quendi 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs



    Your a Good man..

    .................... ...OUTLAW

  • therevealer

    a serious reply/question for Wonderment - The scripture in John reads thusly 28 "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven : "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." 29 So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered ; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him." 30 Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.

    where in that scripture do you see that Jesus is said to glorify his fathers name? He asks his father to do so. I have often wondered if the "name" was so important, why did Jesus not make clear what his dad's name was. True he may have used "father" because of his relationship, but why was the "name" never made clear and highlighted. Surely if a personal name is paramount ( a mere "the creator" "the almighty god" etc.) not enough to set JHWH apart and thwart that evil Trinity doctrine (which doctrine has more nuances then any jw or jw apologist has a clue about) then, well maybe the NWT has a purpose after all.

  • PSacramento


    Glorifying His Name.

    God glorified His Name in His Only Begotten Son in who, all the fullness of God dwelt.

    God's name was glorified in Jesus, the name above all names, that name and only that name that gives Us Salvation:

    ACTS 4:12

    12 There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved.”

  • jookbeard

    I've always found it strange that Fred"frequenter of male saunas in New York" Franz receives so much adulation and is revered in this almost superstar status because he could recite scripture and public talks by memory , big deal ? seeing that his eye sight failed in his latter years it was the only method available to him then, seeing that most of his talks appeared to ramble on and on and famously went overtime by most times double the amount they should have makes it even less impressive. I knew a guy some years ago who could recite the whole film scripts of all of James Dean's films and he had learning difficulties.

  • Terry


    You're a Good man..

    Hey, Outlaw...that's supposed to be our little secret!

  • Wonderment

    Terry: Thank you for bringing the fonts issue to my attention. It appears you are using Internet Explorer and I am using Firefox. I use Linux also. I checked Firefox on a Windows system, and it does show way smaller. Didn't realize that until you brought it up. Thanks! Let me know if the issue is still there.

    therevealer: "Jesus chose to glorify God's name before others. See John 12:28-30. I believe it is better to follow Jesus in this matter than to follow modern bible translators who have an aversion to his name."

    The scripture in John reads 12:28-3028 "28 ‘Father, glorify your name.’ Therefore a voice came out of heaven: ‘I both glorified [it] and will glorify [it] again.’ 29 Hence the crowd that stood about and heard it began to say that it had thundered. Others began to say: ‘An angel has spoken to him.’ 30 In answer Jesus said: ‘This voice has occurred, not for my sake, but for YOUR sakes.’"

    You are right that Jesus asked for his Father's name to be glorified in front of a crowd, not that he pronounced the name. However, I don't see that contradicting my previous statement that Jesus chose to glorify God's name before others. Does it?

    At John 17:6,26, Jesus says to his Father in prayer: "I have made your name known [manifest] to them and will make it known."

    And since Jesus taught his followers to pray (Mt 6:9): "Let your name be sanctified," you could say that Jesus chose to glorify God's name before others. Did he not?

    Now, as regards to whether actually Jesus used the tetragrammaton as JWs claim is open to debate. One issue that has puzzled bible readers for centuries is the fact that while Hebrew manuscripts have the name all over, the extant Greek ms don't. And that's where most of the controversy surrounds.

  • designs


    I think it was worthwhile for them to expose the ideas of Arius and Newton and the Socinians to the public. Could a Creedalist argue the merits of their Creeds sure but opinions fighting one another is a dog chasing its own tail.


    [email protected]!!..


    I brought the fonts to your attention..Me!..

    It was all Me!..Bwa-ha-ha-ha!..

    Interestingly, Jesus chose to glorify God's name before others. See John 12:28-30. I believe it is better to follow Jesus

    in this matter than to follow modern bible translators who have an aversion to his name. What do you think?.....Wonderment

    If Jesus did speak the name of God..

    It would not be a 14th Century Catholic Translation Mistake from the Future..

    Your not following Jesus..Your a Catholic Apologist..

    .................... ...OUTLAW

  • PSacramento

    If we take the NT writings as authoritive we see that Jesus addressed his father in the following ways:

    My God.



    And taught to his followers to pray to their Father in Heaven.

    Paul said that when the HS enters us we cry out " Abba, Father !".

    That the name was know is a given, that it was even written as part of Hallelujah is a fact, that Christ spoke and taught as I have shown above should speak for it's self.

    As any 1st century Jew would tell you, glorifing a name has very little to do with saying the actual name.

  • Wonderment

    OUTLAW: Oops! Sorry about attributing the fonts observation to Terry, when it was OUTLAW the contributor. I stand corrected.

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