Frederick Franz, "Bible Scholar"

by Quendi 115 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I'm not certain what this "discussion" is about. Is it that one Jewish studies prof. said, with much disclaimer, that it was not bad? He is entitled to his view. Remember, Timothy Leary, was a prof. at Harvard when all the LSD experiments occurred. Of all the 60s heroes, he is the lowest on my list. I think there is a big difference between Jewish Studies and Hebrew. Whether it is large enough to knock out this prof, i don't know.

    It strikes me that there is much venom about not much. The prof. notes that he criticizes all who start with doctrine first and then translate. Everyone brings their baggage to the table. If I were a translator, I'd be extremely conscious of my antiWitness feeling and try to filter it. Bethel doesn't know what a filter is.

    I have a thought. Thank you for Jesus=Greek, Why is the Witness lit so atrocious in brain power and writing style, not to mention graphics. If the NWT is so great, why are we dumbed-down? Of course, the NWT was not made for serious studying. You take your WT and jump to this verse, next to another verse, ad infinitum.

    OMG-the apostles have Greek names. Would their everyday, family names be Aramaic or Hebrew? I love John.

  • Adam Levi
    Adam Levi

    I know this an old thread. But FYI, Benjamin Kedar you guys refer to is not the right one.

    The actual scholar who evaluated NWT and provided multiple comments of it is a Hebrew scholar from University of Haifa. His full name is Benjamin Kedar-Kopftstein as noted in jw.org.

    See Wikipedia for his full biography. He is often confused with Benjamin Z Kedar, professor of Jewish History from Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

    He has multiple reviews on Hebrew part of NWT to various sources. I got this from multiple forums in the internet.

    Harris, Doug (1993). Awake to the Watch Tower. Reachout Trust. pp. 347–349. ISBN 0-951-36322-0. Another source they quote both in WT and All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial is Professor Benjamin Kedar of Israel. "In fact, the New World Translation is a scholarly work. In 1989, Professor Benjamin Kedar of Israel said: 'In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translation, I often refer to the English edition as what is known as the New World Translation. In doing so, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this kind of work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew. ... Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain.'" I have two personal letters from Prof. Dr. Kedar who is a research fellow of the Hebrew University Bible Project. ... An extract reads as follows ... It is evident that I do not share the tenets of so-called Jehova's [sic] Witnesses. i.e the Watchtower people, but I have absolutely no wish to get involved in sectarian jealousies and quibbles. A quite different question is that of their Bible translation, ... I have checked hundreds of verses and have never found what one may consider a tendentious misinterpretation of Hebrew text of the Old Testament (Haifa, 1st March 1992). ... As you have correctly stated all my pronouncements on the watchtower version refer exclusively to the Hebrew portion of the Bible, i.e the Old Testament, of which I have checked hundreds of verses. I am not qualified to pass judgement on the corresponding English version of the Greek New Testament. ...(Haifa, 9th May 1992)

    Furuli, Rolf (1999). The Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation. Elihu Books. pp. 296–297. ISBN 0-9659814-4-4. I agree with the words of the Israeli professor Benjamin Kedar: 'Several years ago I quoted the so-called New World Translation among several Bible versions in articles that dealt with purely philological questions (such as the rendition of the causative hiphil, of the participle qotel). In the course of my comparative studies I found the NWT rather illuminating: it gives evidence of an acute awareness of the structural characteristics of Hebrew as well as of an honest effort to faithfully render these in the target language. A translation is bound to be a compromise, and as such it's details are open to criticism; this applies to the NWT too. In the portion corresponding to the Hebrew Bible, however, I have never come upon an obviously erroneous rendition which would find it's explanation in a dogmatic bias. Repeatedly I have asked the antagonists of the Watchtower-Bible who turned to me for a clarification of my views, to name specific verses for a renewed scrutiny. This either was not done or else the verse submitted (e.g. Genesis 4:13, 6:3, 10:9, 15:5, 18:20 etc.) did not prove the point, namely a tendentious translation.'* ... *This quote is from a general letter that Kedar sends out to those who inquire about his views of the NWT. Regarding his views ...

    Kedar-Kopfstein, Benjamin (January 1981). "Die Stammbildung qôṭel als Übersetzungsproblem" [The rooting qôṭel as a translation problem]. Journal of Old Testament scholarship (Zeitschrift für die Alttestamentliche Wissenschaft) (in German, English, and Biblical Hebrew). 93 (2): 254–279. Retrieved December 9, 2017. p.262: "In sharp contrast to this free translation, LXX [Septuagint] and NWT are largely based on the formal structure of the source language [ancient Hebrew]."

    Kedar-Kopfstein, Benjamin (1973). "The Interpretative Element in Transliteration" (PDF). Textus: Studies of the Hebrew University Bible Project (in English, Biblical Hebrew, and Biblical Greek). 8: 55–77. This article quotes NWT many times supporting primary source statement that the professor uses it in his linguistic studies.

    Below two extra quotes are from avoidjw website here, where he claim to have encouraged his students to use it.

    (Some extra information is here compared to original quote first appeared in WT publications, not sure where avoidjw got it from)

    The Hebrew scholar Dr. Benjamin Kedar of Israel, Professor emeritus of ancient classical Hebrew, former Head of the Department of Old Testament Studies in the University of Haifa and Assistant in the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, evaluated the New World Translation as follows: “With Regard to the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION: In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew. To my English speaking students I always recommend a comparison between the King James Version and the New World Translation by which they are made aware of the objective difficulties in the original text as well as the different possibilities of interpretation. Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain” — Letter, June 12, 1989, translated from the German, UaP.

    (Below letter is translated using google translate as appeared on avoidjw website)

    Professor Benjamin Kedar: In a letter dated September 27, 1987: "I have quoted the NWT translation because there is an independent (from the King James translation!) Reproduction that must unabashedly decode every occurrence of the QOTEL. The sectarian bias is hardly, if ever, expressed here "(letter of 27 September 1987 with reference to his article)

  • zeb
    zeb

    Were did I read that Wescott & Hort were into the occult? and the wt based the nwt on their writings?

    Was it TIME magazine that did a front page interview with Franz? Does anyone have a copy of that a link perhaps? It is heresay that the journalist who did the interview said later Franz was completely whacko.

    Me? I read the KJ its archaic english slows you down and you have to read not skim..thanks Jason..

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Fredrick Franz was novice bible scholar and a devious culpable crook when he was creating doctrines for the WTS/JWS .

    He was an elemental part of the corruption of the Watchtower Corporation.

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    It's the new testament translation that is the extremely skeptical translation that no scholarly university recognizes as legit

  • Crazyguy2
    Crazyguy2

    It’s important to note that Franz did not have two years of studies in Greek like the original poster stated. That was a WT lie or a legend that someone started.

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    To Adam Levi,

    Thank you so much for pointing out to us the confusion of many between the two scholars named Benjamin Kedar of Israel. I myself made that blunder.The one who wrote about the NWT was Benjamin Kedar-Kopfstein.

    Anyways, those who criticized me in the previous page for mentioning this scholar's positive comments on the OT portion of the NWT claiming he had no authority whatsoever to talk about linguistic issues criticized too soon. Their motives have been revealed.

  • Jazzbo
    Jazzbo

    Been looking at translation quite a bit lately and read multiple books on the subject as well as speaking with a few people that actually can read Greek and Hebrew. While I would say that the NWT is not a horrible translation they took absolutely unjustified liberties in inserting the Name in the Greek Scriptures. You can maybe justify doing it in quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures but nowhere else. They also clearly let doctrine bias their wording in quite a few cases though that is almost a constant with translation because often there are several possibilities and you simply have to select one. I would also say that real 'translation' is very difficult indeed and requires expertise that I do not believe they possessed or posses to this day. So it's really a kind of cobbled together version rather than an actual translation and I believe they were completely dishonest in their descriptions of how it was produced. All that stuff about how great 'leteral' translation is must be considered complete BS because all translation is interpretation. I recommend the NASB, ESV and my favorite is the HCSB. Occasionally I use the Jerusalem Bible or PHillips.

  • joe134cd
    joe134cd

    I saw a video of Freddie a couple years before he died. Physically the man was broken but mentally he was as sharp as a razor. He recited the bible off perfectly with out even a “um”. Couldn’t fault it. When ever I hear about people talking about his “IQ” level, it always reminded me of that video I saw.

    I get the impression he may of been the eccentric type. Who in reality all he wanted to do was stay locked in his room and come up with some new knowledge on the bible. Unfortunately his life style affect the lives of millions.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    When people self assume their interpretation of the bible is the most accurate and they self assume that god is supporting that assumption, that in itself creates a world of problems .

    F Franz had a part in creating the no blood doctrine and propagating the 6000 years of mankind's existence twice approximately 30 years apart.

    What he really was was a pseudo novice bible scholar that got most of his bible scholarly training from another novice C T Russell, the past president of the WTS.

    He stayed with the organization long enough to be vice president and then president of the WTS. The JWs organization was built and created by people who accepted these guys bible interpretations, even though they were quite obviously not academically trained bible scholars. ........the rest is history

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