My public talk on sunday

by mankkeli 47 Replies latest jw friends

  • MrMonroe

    Cantleave, you beat me to it: I was gonna ask if you included Ummagumma.

    To th elders posting here who still give talks, you are in a difficult, yet valuable position. If you feel you can make people think by what you include in talks, then that's a good thing. But I think we all know that JWs don't go to meetings to pay attention listen and absorb. They go to be seen there so people don't think less of them.

    I think they check in all their reasoning faculties when they walk through the door; it's a fantasy world where talk of angels, Nephilim, grass-eating lions and angelic direction are commonplace and people address one another as "Brother" and "Sister". It's a pretend world, where everyone enters an unspoken pact to believe the unbelievable and not do anything to pop the bubble the spoil the moment.

    If you're working on an exit strategy that's wonderful. Considering the depth of mind control that exists within the organisation, I seriously doubt you'll take "thousands" with you. There have, of course, been instances of mass defections triggered by unpopular disfellowshippings. "Crisis of Allegiance" by James A. Beverley tells the remarkable story of how Jim Penton's expulsion split congregations and prompted mass walkouts (and in one case a fist fight).

    But it's a rarity. All the very best, however.

  • outsmartthesystem

    Can'tleave - That is just great! Many years ago, a friend and I were in the same wedding party. We received wallets as a gift. We both made it a point to use our new wallets in every talk we gave for the next year in some sort of illustration. Funny, yes. But nowhere near as difficult as mentioning all Pink Floyd album titles in one talk!

  • cedars

    mankkeli - this appears to have become a broader discussion about the reasons why you are still parading as an appointed man in an organisation you know to be false, and in so doing propagating the lies of the society. Is this what you intended, or were you genuinely seeking support for giving your talk?

    I can see your argument that you are in the "process" of withdrawing, and that's commendable at least. It sounds to me like you want to go down in a blaze of glory and take thousands with you. Surely you're not naive enough to think that anything you do or say from an assembly platform will convince diehard believers to drop their treasured beliefs, however flawed, all in one go? If I've misread your "strategy", will you be giving us a clue as to how you intend to execute your strategic withdrawal? Will your display be documented and revealed to all of us retrospectively in the future?

    I can sympathise with what many are saying that every word you say from the platform that you know to be false could be counting against you. I wonder whether people will look back on your "bowing out" performance and take away from it that you are a genuine man following your conscience when you have been so happy to say things you know to be false over such a long period of time. How, they might argue, would they be able to believe anything else you say AFTER your retreat if you were speaking with a forked tongue BEFORE your grand exit?

    I appreciate everyone has their reasons for keeping a foot in both camps, but it disturbs me that so many do for reasons OTHER than keeping fellow family members happy. Are there any other legitimate reasons? Maybe I'll start a new thread on that question. That was what kept me trapped in the organisation for years after I realised it was false, and thankfully I was able to sneak out through the back door by becoming inactive. It also helps that I have a very understanding and open-minded wife.

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    Point taken Mr. Falcon, but you have to admit the suspicion, when makes comments as he did in his openly comment.

    Do people know really know what personal integrity is........good grief

    Ya'know what, thetrueone? I went back and read his opening statement again. I think I see what you mean now.

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    "Deteriorating world conditions point to the fact that Ummagumma is just around the corner!"

  • Quendi


    My friend, your statement was the most lucid and well-reasoned I have read on this thread. I agree with it entirely. This organization does not deserve any honest man's strength or support. By giving that, we aid and abet its evils even if we do so passively and reluctantly. And the effect upon us can't be good either. "A house divided against itself cannot stand." "No man can serve two masters." Those ancient words are still true. There is no way that we can keep our own personal integrity and cooperate with the WTS in any fashion.

    As Don Cameron put it in Captives of a Concept, there is no honorable way to leave the WTS. If we wish to do so, we cannot tell its leaders and representatives how we honestly feel without suffering brutal consequences. We must either disassociate ourselves, get disfellowshipped, or fade as quietly as we can manage. But trying to keep one foot in and the other out will only split us in two. Even if we are doing so for family's sake, the time will eventually come when a decision will be forced upon us. I know people who are facing such a day of reckoning now and I feel for them. Anyway, I hope you will start a thread on this. I will read it with great interest.


  • thetrueone

    Ya'know what, thetrueone? I went back and read his opening statement again. I think I see what you mean now.

    Pretty strong derogatory comments coming from a guy who gives Sunday public talks.

    Just saying thats all.

    Goes into the weird level

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    I don't know how you guys do it standing up on the platform and just lying your way through it. I got to the point were my face was just covered with disapproval and I could not hide my thoughts in the hall or at the door so we had to leave. To me when I realized it was a lie i was ready to open fire and i don't care who will never speak to me again I just burned that bridge and never looked back. So i don't get how someone can put up with that hypocrisy week after week.

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