A brother at my wife's congregation wants to study the Bible Teach book...

by garyneal 79 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    April 1, 1972 Watchtower article "They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them" is where they claim they ARE prophets. Don't let them ever say they aren't.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Here are some questions you might want answered if you deal with the blood issue.

    1. How Kosher should Christians be when purchasing meat, fish and fowl products?

    2. Do all the blood laws of the Old Testament apply to Christians?

    3. Is there a New Testament verse that outlaws the storing of ones own blood?

    How can Christians determine that storing blood is part of the abstention?

    Is it possible that the blood restrictions in Acts 15 were given in the context of harmonizing (not causing offense) Gentile/Jew relations?

    4. If a Christian eats at the home of a pagan, should he ask questions of conscience?

    At this time I don't think the Christian need ask any questions of conscience at the table of any pagan, whether he is presented meat that has been offered to idols, or something that has been strangled or blood pudding (pork blood fried into sausage).

    I Cor. 8:1-13 I Cor.10:23-33 Romans 14:14-23

    5. Can any food that enters a person's mouth defile him?

    "Paul instructs the church that there is NOTHING unclean of itself. He states that he is persuaded of this by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. I Cor.10:23-33 informs us that the Christian is not to question what is placed in front of him at an unbelievers table but is rather to eat WHATSOEVER is set before him. This would obviously mean that the Christian could partake of blood pudding without sinning against God. He would not be defiled by such an act.

    Paul's reiteration of this in Romans 14:14-23 is quite remarkable. He says that NOTHING is unclean of itself and thus it cannot defile a believer. He gives however, the same restriction to this liberty as he did for eating meats offered to idols and things strangled. If a brother is in danger of being offended, the Christian believer must abstain. Could it be that it is in this light that the church in Acts 15 forbids the consumption of blood?

    Apart from the danger of offense, Paul clearly demonstrates that the eating or drinking of any food is not defiling to the Christian. This is in accord with what he also said in his letter to the Colossians; namely that no one is to judge us in what we eat, drink, or in respect of a holy day, new moon or Sabbath days. (Col.2:16).

    It is interesting that Paul says that he is persuaded BY THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF that NOTHING is unclean of itself. Obviously this would mean that Jesus himself must have had something to say on this matter and if anything can decide this issue it is His word. In Mark 7:14-23 Jesus gives the teaching that would inspire Paul in his belief and set the proper conduct for all Christians in respect to what we can eat and drink. In his discourse, Jesus clearly teaches that there is NOTHING from without a man, that entering into him can defile him. Clearly, the eating of blood pudding is thus not defiling, and therefore not sinful.

    This would also mean that Christians (like Jews) are at liberty to receive blood transfusions for there is NOTHING that can enter a man from the outside that can render him impure. The first three restrictions in Acts 15 are all from without, and do not defile because of this. The fourth restriction in Acts however, fornication does originate from the heart and because of this clearly does defile a person." The Issue of Blood in the Holy Bible by M. Eufemia


  • wasblind

    Hello there Mad,

    On page 133 in the reasoning book they state

    " If any individual or organization claim to represent God, but decline to use God's personal name............are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true profit???"

    On page 197 in the reasoning book they state:

    " How would it be possible to identify the true God as different from the false god of the nations???? Only by using his personal name, as the bible itself does."

    Seems to me that they are describing themmselves as true prophets.

    who ever heard of and uninspired prophet. 1 Timothy 4:1 says that even misleading utterances are inspired, so how can they not be inspired by by the bible teachings?

  • Bella15

    Great advise WANNAFREE! A have a neighbor that was studying the bible with JWs but she didn't like the fact that they didn't use the bible exclusively they insisted in using their books. She made a search in the internet about JWs and ran fast from them.

  • garyneal

    VM44: Thanks for the link to the book. Now everyone can follow along as I see how far this can go.

    Mad Sweeney: I did not realize that the WT published that they were a prophet that recently. I somehow thought it was from a much earlier publication. I wonder if it is on the CD?

    Vander: Yes, I am aware of how critical 1914 is to their teachings. I remember broaching this subject with an elder at my wife's cong (a nice fella, we studied with him and his wife for a few years). He was impressed with how much I really knew about the chronology and even admitted to me sometime later that if that teaching was false it can wreak all sorts of havoc with their doctrine. This past Sunday he asked me to pay him a visit, maybe I should. In regards to your blood related questions, they are good ones and I may use them. I will see how the 'study' goes though as I don't want to inundate him with a bunch of questions and have him put up his defenses.

    Thanks everyone for your responses so far. I think I will stick with the chapter I originally intended, it starts with some topics that I agree with so it may help establish some common ground. The blood issue is later in the chapter and I will just begin to question and see how he responds.

  • garyneal

    They're almost here, just parked on the street. Will be taking notes.

  • Pams girl
    Pams girl

    Excited, much! All the best to ya! x

  • cantleave
    Unfortunately, he just copped out by saying that the whole date thing is not their core doctrine that
    that they are about loving God, neighbor, and understanding God's purpose (paraphrasing).....Gary Neal

    It`s not just copping out..

    It`s a Blatent Lie..

    Watchtower World revolves around 1914..And..

    607 BCE..

    ....................... ...OUTLAW

  • garyneal

    Okay, the part you were all waiting for:

    Brother ‘Hero’ (named by Chris) came by on time at 6:00 p.m. EDT yesterday. He had his grandson with him, apparently his grandson is visiting from New York for two weeks and I have to admit to finding that a bit awkward. If any real discussion was going to take place, I would’ve almost preferred his grandson not be around. However, he’s here and I cannot be held responsible for any potential fallout.

    Now, admittedly, nothing really came out of this as far as topics of debate and serious questioning. We only had time enough to cover 5 paragraphs in this chapter and those paragraphs spoke mainly about life being originated from God, God’s view on how precious life is, and how we are not to take a life. I award no points to anyone who was wondering why if God finds life so precious does He order His people to commit genocide and why He felt it necessary to have bears maul young children for mocking one of His chosen ones. As tempting as it was for me to point that out, I was committed to my original topic concerning their view on blood (which we did not get to).

    Brother ‘Hero’ also talked about evolution and how back when he was in school it was taught as a mere theory and how now it is taught as fact. He said that this old world is working hard to educate our kids things that go contrary to the Bible. The only comments I made to that was my remarking on how I recall reading about evolution back when I was in school and how years later my step-dad’s brother (who is an IFB) was telling me that even though some of us look like apes, we did not descend from apes. It got a chuckle in the room and Brother Hero was feeling a bit more confident in himself. Again, no points for anyone who points out his fallacy as I was thinking of things like some groups are actually trying to get schools to teach Intelligent Design not to mention the fact that there is evidence proving evolution. The Intelligent Design thought came in my head when he stated that everything in our universe suggests a designer. He remarked on how scientist point out that the sun is just the right distance from the Earth and how if it were any closer or any further away, our planet would be either too hot or too cold for life. I remarked that I recall seeing something on TV that made similar claims to the universal constant of gravitation, etc. where it stated that everything was in perfect balance. Naturally, he likened the whole design of creation to a watch, a common argument used by creationists.

    During the reading of the paragraphs, we looked at the cherry picked scriptures and discussed them. One was about Cain and Abel in the book of Genesis and how God cursed Cain for killing Abel. His grandson interjected and asked, “Is he going to Hell?” smiling as if he knew the answer and looked as if he must’ve thought that he had some ‘super secret’ knowledge about Hell being the grave. Brother ‘Hero’ just said no, an awkward silence followed, and he stated that ‘I would learn more about that later.’ I thought, “Wow, does he not realize that I live with a witness and know this stuff already?”

    He said something interesting during the study that admittedly I was unaware of. During our looking at the scripture references, we talked about the taking of a life for a life as mentioned in the Bible. It was during our reading of the paragraph that concerned abortions and the scripture reference spoke of causing a woman to lose her baby in a miscarriage. He spoke of how abortion was wrong and that this country had legalized it and how that was against God’s will, etc.. I asked him about capital punishment and he stated that governments had the authority to take a life. That was something that I was not aware of so I asked him to elaborate. He stated that in a trial where the sentence could be death, the government has the authority to kill the individual who was sentenced, but Christians do not. Now I am confused even more for what if the judge, members of the jury, and/or the executioner was a Christian? He stated that he would not serve on the jury if it involved capital punishment and he would want to know ahead of time. If it was a case that was civil or simply involved jail time he would serve, but he would decline if it involved capital punishment.

    To say that I was confused over all this was a bit of an understatement but I think that the jist of what he was probably getting at is that only TRUE Christian would decline jury duty especially if it involved capital punishment. This is only a guess and I will probably probe him more on this next week. In addition to this, I will also ask him about the scenario where an abortion is necessary to preserve the mother’s life and ask what his thoughts are on that?

    All of this did give me some fodder for my questioning when we do get to the part of the chapter concerning blood. The paragraphs we read so far made a big deal about how God views life as sacred and therefore we are not to take that life. It is interesting how God could view life so sacred and yet witnesses would rather watch their precious children die than allow them to receive a blood transfusion that could save it. Seems pretty inconsistent to me. Perhaps that is why secular governments are stepping in to protect these children for after all, if they have the authority to take life when it involves capital punishment perhaps they also have the authority to preserve it in cases involving children of Jehovah’s Witnesses. At least, that is one way to reason it giving what Brother ‘Hero’ has stated so far.

Share this