by garyneal 79 Replies latest jw friends
... he apparently has wanted to do so for a while now. I agreed to meet with him this Tuesday night at 6:00 p.m. EDT. He asked me to pick the chapter where I wanted to start.
Hmmmmm... Where shall I start? Perhaps chapter 13. It speaks of showing respect for blood and on page 131 it makes the same errorneous example of abstaining from alcohol and asking, "If your doctor asked you to abstain from alcohol, would you have it injected into your veins?"
Any suggestions?
Start with chapters that you don't have much to disagree about and remember that you don't have to disagree with every little error.
You need to get him believing you are prime recruitment material, then pick a subject where you can get him to talk his way into a deep hole and then try to explain his way out of it.
Doctrine is a poor choice of target. Target dishonesty, 'selection', double standards, hypocracy. Prepare by getting quoted literature from the library or as PDF's. I make a point of owning anything that they blatantly misquote.
The object of the game is to get him to tell you he is wrong.
You can't tell him he is wrong, as he is trained to not listen.
Good luck
Chris
Not a chapter in the Bible I take it...yes jws study their books, not the Bible, although they put enough scriptures in to give that impression.
(Matthew 15:3-9) 3 In reply he said to them: "Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ 5 But YOU say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother: "Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God," 6 he must not honor his father at all.’ And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’"
I suggest Chapter 9 'Are We Living in "the Last Days"?' and/or Appendix pg. 215-218 '1914 A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy'
.... or, tell him you are not comfortable studying anything but the BIble itself ... progressive study of the New Testament book by book (jwtalk "The Christian Greek Scriptures") ... find out why NWT has Jehovah in Greek Scriptures, make him do research on the "J" texts ... hold him to chapter by chapter and verse by verse in context ...
He will try to prepare ahead of time using the Bible Teach Book, covering the chapters progressively without actually using the book, at least that is what is suggested, trying to make you think it is just a Bible study. If you hold him to sticking with a single book, beginning to end, verses in context (a true study of the Bible), you will completely throw off the JW Bible Study format.
Why do they want to study with people who already know their doctrines?
I've never understood that.
Trick#2
Once you have him all excited and he is telling his bretheren what a good Bible study you are and you have done your homework and are ready to rip him a new one..........
...... Arrange it so that your wife is there while he is trying to dig his way out of the hole you have prepared for him.
There is no point in going to the trouble of getting a JW to that point, only to let him escape by abandoning the study without answering your question ........ and not having your wife as an audience.
She needs to witness him in the crap, so that you can use his behaviour, reticence, excuses, reluctance to continue your study, whatever, as leverage.
You need to be able to ask her why Brother Hero hasn't got back to you with an answer that doesn't involve dishonesty, character assassination, or whatever other excuse he used. You have left the door open for him to answer your question. Now you want to know, from her, why he isn't on your doorstep with an honest answer?
Depending on how brainwashed he is, nothing will matter to him. I offered to show my MIL how JWs hold the Memorial on the wrong day, using only scriptures. She said she didn't want to see them. She rejected the Bible, in favor of Watchtower dogma, outright. My wife was shocked, because she's been having a hard time accepting what I've been trying to explain to her about how brainwashed JWs are. I've been showing her the psychology behind the indoctrination techniques and explained to her exactly what will happen when they encounter certain stimuli. Because their beliefs are purely emotional and not intellectual, once their reactions are forecasted and noticed, they're astounding in their insanity. You could tell your wife exactly what the guy's reaction will be when you bring up certain facts. Show her you know this will happen, because when people have been mind controlled, this is the result. You can demonstrate the mind control by pressing certain buttons, which will bring certain predictable results.
Chapter 15, the one on true worship. Point out many other religions that do the same and when they point to JW's growth as proof, say you thought it would be a remnant. When he mentions the great crowd, point out that they were standing in heaven...
Hmmm, much to think about...
Blondie: Good point and you are right, they study their books and not scripture. I've been in these 'bible studies' before with my wife and I wish I knew then what I know now. Because if I did then I could've ...
Black Sheep: ... followed your suggestions. Set him up for dishonesty. Back when my wife and I were studying, she had become disillusioned with them because of their reaction to our dating and how they nearly forced her mom to step down as a pioneer and her dad as an MS. I could've capitalized on that and perhaps pushed her over the edge.
Never-the-less, I will try your suggestion and find a chapter where there is little I disagree with to kind of get him hooked. My wife believes that I will never have the right heart condition to become a Jehovah's Witness (hence why she won't try to prove the selection in 1919 for me) so it will probably bear little fruit.
Wannabefree: I was considering the 1914 angle but if my wife is any indication, he will probably gloss over it and say something along the lines of "we don't serve for dates." It is maddening how they can be so self righteous and say how they are serving God more fully than any other Christian because of their errors but ignore their own errors. I mean, if they don't serve for dates then why are the dates still in their publications?
Also, I may consider the study only the Bible alone approach but I think we will start with a couple of chapters in this book first, depends on how things go and how bored I get with this.
White Dove: He may be ignorant of what I know. I don't know but my wife may not have been giving him the full scoop. I do know that she mentioned to an elder at her cong that I was associating with apostates, so I don't know.
WontLeave: Thanks for the tip, my only concern is that my wife is very brainwashed herself and reacts in typical ways when I 'press her buttons.' It's frustrating how she attempts to make it all about me and my 'heart condition' when I want simple honest answers. I mean, if she wants to worship the Faithful Slave TM , believe that Christ returned invisibly in 1914, or that He only mediates for the 144,000, that's her perogative. My only issue is, why am I made out to look like there is something wrong with me simply because I disagree or require proof of their sole authority to interpret scripture? She's a born in, is serving because she has a lot of family in it, and is afraid to die.
EntirelyPossible: You know my wife said something that gave me an angle that might have reached her. She said that the Israelites were God's chosen people and they still are to this day even though their leadership may have strayed. She pointed out that some of them had the right 'heart conditions' and are serving Jehovah properly. "In like manner," I said, "you believe that the Watchtower was chosen by God and the witnesses are His chosen people even though they may stray from time to time. Could that also not be said of the Catholics, the churches of Christendom, the Mormons, etc.? How can we say that God just did not choose all Christians as His chosen people even though their leadership may have strayed?"
Not sure how effective that was but I think it made her think. That was when I told her that without proof, I am inclined to give every Christian some benefit of the doubt.
Be careful, you just might get assimilated.
Your wife holds out hope. There is a man in my hall, recently appointed elder, who was an unbelieving and opposing mate for many years.
Here are headings under "Opposition" in Watchtower Publications Index.
attitude changed by neighbor's appreciation: yb91 143-144
consensual wife won over: yb98 250, 252
daughter won over: w88 3/1 7
family members won over: w03 7/1 7; yb03 58-59; yb00 239-241; w90 2/15 27; w86 8/1 21
father's opposition softens after six years: g98 6/8 18-20
father won over: g98 2/22 31; yb96 57; w90 7/15 25-26
husband changes after 20 years: yb93 179-180
husband won over: w07 2/15 20-21; w06 8/1 11-15; w05 5/15 29; w05 12/1 17; yb02 103; yb98 98-100; g97 6/22 20-22; fy 131; w95 10/1 10-11; w94 10/1 9; yb90 45, 64; w89 1/15 6; w86 2/1 17; w86 5/1 22-23; w86 8/1 21
opposed husband builds pool for wife's baptism: w89 3/15 29
Witness conduct wins over: w04 4/1 31
husbands accept Bible study: yb96 53-54; w89 11/15 30
husbands eventually respond: w10 9/1 16-17; w95 7/15 23-24; w90 11/15 31; w89 11/15 20; w87 10/15 29
many family members respond: yb07 57-58; w95 8/15 26-27; w90 5/15 22; w89 7/1 12; w88 12/1 24
17 members accept truth: yb94 43
18 members accept truth: w88 12/1 24
20 members accept truth: jv 514
26 members accept truth: yb07 241-242
29 members accept truth: w90 7/15 25-26
30 members accept truth because of stand on blood: w88 4/1 27
40 members accept truth: w09 9/15 31
80 members accept truth: jv 514
82-year-old woman and family: yb02 60
conduct of wife: yb95 46
hospitality of Witness family: yb96 45
*** g 8/10 p. 11 A Lawyer Examines Jehovah's Witnesses ***
What made you decide to become a Witness?
At first, I began to attend a few meetings at the Kingdom Hall with my wife, who by then had become a Witness. I was impressed by the friendliness of the Witnesses and their love for one another, regardless of race. I had not seen this in my own faith. So after about three years of further study, I was baptized.
