by AllTimeJeff 57 Replies latest jw friends
great post and on target. It was this site that helped me realise I had been lied to and that my family deserved better. It was this site that helped me to make the stand when I needed to. And it is the real people on this site who have become my friends and support. 24hrs a day we are here to help. Yes it is hard to shake off JW conditioning and make friends but it does get better.
I cannot tell you how much JWN and it's posters mean to me.
It's been just about a year now since I realized everything I had been taught as a child and truly believed was complete BS.
I remember going to a concert with a bunch of friends in the city and realizing in all probability, that when everything is said and done and I've made a complete transition out of this mess, my existing 'life framework' - friends, family, beliefs, plans - would be so altered as to be unrecognizable.
I hit me that I needed to start NOW in growing a new framework or scaffold alongside the old so when it comes time to 'jump ship' my family and I don't end up flat on our faces.
This site has definitely helped in this scaffold building proccess. Just to see that all these 'crazy' doubts and feelings I've had are normal and that there are THOUSANDS of people out there who have seen and experienced the same thing I have is pretty cool.
This forum isn't about helping the mentally ill, or those looking for god, because this forum is mostly about JW's, and when you think about it, being a former JW is about leaving a god, not heading to a new one. So for you theists out there, show some respect and remember that, ok?
This is a huge assumption.....this assumes that EVERYONE is just like you....this assumes that EVERYONE wants to ditch all faith in God. And worst of all..the way you have stated this supposed fact....ie "this forum is not about helping the mentally ill, or those looking for god". How arrogant can anyone get? Mental illness covers a variety of things from anxiety attacks, agraphobia, depression etc to much more severe. The more severe I have noticed has been dealt with quite well on here from what I have seen. Because people seem to recognise it and the advise given is to seek professional help. (not the nasty "you need help" by the way, that advise is usually saved for the theists). The fact that you have put mentally ill and those looking for god in the same sentense says a lot about what you think. But it is only youre opinion. And quite a rude one at that.
Do you not think that people who need to be here need a variety of things to help them recover? Some may need black and white information and answers to questions, some may need to learn how to develop friendships, some are developing an interest in politics, some just want to let off steam..some want to discover what they really think about god and test their beliefs (not just with Atheists).and SOME do all of these things at some stage or another.
Maybe its only acceptable to discuss....WHY WE SHOULDNT BELIEVE IN GOD.
But in the end....I suppose....if you are correct, then I am definately in the wrong place....so thanks for the heads up.
@ still thinking
I didn't say that theists weren't welcome, it's just that former JW's, esp those first leaving, need their space. Also, I think that saying you have a theistic world view (i.e. "I believe in and love god and here is what my god has done for me") is very approrpriate.
However, that would be different from proselytizing. (i.e. "I believe in god and you should too, because I am right, and my god is the only way to worship, and you are likely to receive eternal condemnation if you don't believe like I do...")
Of course there are people who need a variety of help while recovering. But just like someone recently divorced, people usually don't marry the next person they date, or at least they shouldn't, and should just chill out and get to know themselves a bit. Same thing with religion.
People often find that after they do chill out, they personally don't need or want religion anymore, or find something unique that works for them.
I lurked for a long time before signing up on this forum. But during that time of lurking was a time of learning. When I sign up it was not only a time of more learning but healing. When I am down you guys pull me up when others are down I hope I am helping in pulling others up. AllTimeJeff is right when former JW's come on this board they are very vulnerable and they do need there space but at the same time those who have found relgion should express their viewpoint as will. Just remember many of us are coming out very bitter. When you are angry all you mostly want is someone to listen to you. Mostly thats what a good therapist does except the therapist also gives the patient emotional or mental tools to work with to help understand why you feel that way and what you can do to change it for the better. And in many ways that is what this forum does for many. The job we all have is to recognize what tools will work for us and what ones will not. That is why therapist are paid the big bucks to help you understand what you need. Here you need to kind of sort out what you feel you need. Until you can afford it this is a great place to become whole again. Totally ADD
Want an example of a "good" theist poster? PSacremento.
A "bad" example? Well, I think that's obvious.
Thanks for clarifying that a bit AllTimeJeff...
however..I still have to disagree...I think that ALL the different opinions and beliefs whether fundy christian, or Atheist, or conspiracy theorists, or the DJeggnoggs or any number of other beliefs on this site are invaluable...
It's not about as you put it "recently divorced people marrying the next person they date"....its about seeing many other points of views and beliefs and coming to your own conclusions based on experiencing them in a safe environment.
Put it this way....after experiencing Godrulz form of preaching...how many members of this site do you think are inspired to run down to their local penti church and start talking in tongues? It was an education..and quite frankly saved me having to posssibly ever have any first hand encounter with it. However, I still found some of his discussions interesting because they made me challenge what I believe the bible to say. My partner was trying to encourage me to try other churches. But to be honest, after a few months reading posts on here I have turned totally away from any organised religion....this is not thanks to the atheists...this is thanks to the fundies. I couldn't buy the sort of insight I got here.
The eggnoggs nausiate most...but hell...don't they reinforce why you don't want anthing more to do with that cult?...they are useful in their own way...and hey...you never know...maybe they take something away with them too.
What better than someone lurking seeing a first hand discussion with an eggnogg against members of this board...the stuff that comes out is priceless.. I know it inspired me to join. Along with the fundy religious types, because I wanted to know what other ways you could interpret the bible. I certainly didn't get inspired to join this site because of the anti god posters or atheists. I joined in spite of them. I have now grown to love their comments and opinions but it turned me away the very first time I looked at this site.
My point is...just becuase something doesn't work for you...it does not mean that it doesn't work for someone else...in fact...it could be the one thing that makes all the difference at the time.
I agree with most of yourpoints Jeff.
I do think that former JW's need to look deeply as to WHY theyr were JW's and what they liked about being JW's and Why they left and this forum can truly help in that regard.
Beyond that, well...we are getting into the realm of amateur therapists and that does more harm than good, especially since there is no "ONE ANSWER/SOLUTION" to every JW.
Many Jw's have left and found very fullfilling lives in other faiths, to deny that option is, well, silly and incredibly bias.
The "us against the world" mentality of most JW's can lead itself into some dangerous areas and the first thing most former JW's need to realise is that there are MANY paths in life and many solutions in life and many options in life.
The "we are right and everyone else is wrong" mentality that I see in SO MANY current and former JW's concerns me more than I can put into words.
I have been on the site just a few weeks and I have benefited immensely. Godrulz (may he rest in peace) even helped as he showed me that there are lot of folks, not just JWs, who have a narrow minded view of things and have difficulty integrating with others. I found him almost comical toward the end of his tenure here and if he is really gone, good riddance. Enough is enough.
I too was lost and alone after becoming inactive, but I have made new friends, connected with old ones who left the JWs years ago or were DF'd.
The issue of how to live my life was been a struggle. Some of my closest friends told me I was leaving so I could party, smoke, chase women, do drugs and get blasted. Hearing them say that was a shock, as I realized they never really knew me at all. I basically work all the time and I workout in the gym when I am not at the office. Until recently I had no social life at all and I actually drink less because I not trying to escape the guilt of being a hypocrite, preaching one thing as an elder, but really wanting to be a financial success and get as much education as possible. Now I am free to pursue those goals. I am headed back to college to finish my Bachelor's degree and then pursue my MBA. I believe a Doctorate would cap my dream.
Several of you PMed me with great ideas about how to quench my thirst for spirituality. I am a person who really needs a frame of reference, a set of values by which I can live, plan and direct my life. I do not need organized religion at this point and perhaps never again and while I am rational in most things I am not anxious to quickly dismiss the existence of God or readily embrace atheism. The forum has been helpful in that I have a greater understanding of variey of belief systems we have and the REASONS why we choose them. I see the need to take my time and explore.
As a newbie I would like to thank all of the vets and encourage everyone to keep the free flow of ideas going, respect the views of others, avoid being thin skinned when your view is challenged and for the love of Pete avoid the dogmatic, conversation stopping, narrow minded, judgemental, I am right you are wrong attitude that some are currently struggling with, and others have left behind.
Batman is my favorite superhero because he struggled with inner demons before he chose his path. I have always identified with him and hence the name the dark knight. Like the Batman I finally conquered fear. And now I hope to use my unique experiences as an ex-JW zealot, who gave 100% to the cause until the day I quit, to help others to conquer their fears. To stop fearing death and destruction and learn to REALLY live and enjoy life.
By the way Jeff, it seems to me, looking from the outside in, that leaving the WT is about leaving an ORGANIZATION, not leaving "god".
It many eventually lead, for some, to atheisim, but certainly not for all, but it shoudl START with leaving an organization.
