Logical Questions to Make Them Think?

sweet pea

This has no doubt been covered before and if anyone has any favourite threads on this subject perhaps they could post them here . . .

What are your best one liners/questions to make JW's think?

I had a heated conversation with my mum this weekend and apart from mainly going round in circles (as is often the case with brainwashed cult members) one thing made her stop and I could see that she was having major trouble processing the logic.

I pointed out that God approved of genocide and rape in the Old Testament. She predictably said that Jesus changed everything when he came but when challenged on that with "so God changed his mind about what was right and wrong then?", she paused for a long time and then admitted it didn't make sense and that she struggled with that one.

Also, in the course of the conversation I asked her what she would do if the Governing Body decided to shut down the religion. She looked at me in a "can't compute" kind of way as though it was a totally alien concept and then calmly said "well, I suppose I'd do my own thing". It felt good to put a seed in her head that life goes on without the GB . . .

Another time I plan on throwing in the "so why are there only Marsupials in Australia?" question.

Over to you . . .

Black Sheep

It is good to let them stew on a single topic for a while. If you bring up something else, you distract them. Are there any other questions you can think of on the same topic?

With the marsupials you can throw in that New Zealand had flightless birds unique to NZ and no mammals. Ask her to explain, then just point out any loopy logic.

A one liner that tickled me, but I haven't tried it on a Dub yet, is "What would Jehovah have to do to convince you that the WT doesn't have the Truth?"

.... admitted it didn't make sense and that she struggled with that one.

When she does that, ask if her church would DF someone who refused to believe & teach that particular doctrine/rule? If that happened, would she shun them? Guilt is good. We can do that too.

If she gets a WT teaching wrong, try to get her to prove it. If she won't, you find the contradicting article and get her to read it to you.

Keep an eye on the news for subjects.

Is Harold Camping a false prophet? Why? What scriptures would she use to support her answer? How is what he did different to the WT? He explained away the no-show by redefining what was happening and saying it was invisible. How is that different from 1914, when nothing the WT predicted happened and, now, they say that what did happen was invisible?

Try not to make statements unless you have the paperwork in order & at your fingertips to back you up. It can take a long time to remedy a slip up, so don't make any. Questions are better as "I wasn't sure and was only asking.", if you had a fact wrong.

Good luck

Chris

LUKEWARM

"If Jesus has been ruling since 1914 does that mean that there are only 902 years left of his thousand year reign?"

ThomasCovenant

Not sure if there is any logic in these questions but they make me angry. I wish someone had asked me these when I was younger.

Can they name the seven members of the Governing Body?

Do they still believe Jehovah lives in the Pleiades?

Do they still believe that if a woman is being raped and doesn't scream (out loud, of course) that she is guilty of effin fornicatin'.

Do they still believe that tipping your hat to a woman is the Devil's work?

No, no, no and no.

Joey Jo-Jo

As black sheep points out stay on one topic, they think they have the truth so they wont think much of the conversation if you keep touching on a lot of subjects. Take e.g. disfellowshiping as a topic, do your research first then ask them what qualifies a person to be shunned and were in scripture is it, make sure the person your talking to is very confortable speaking to you, im guilty on getting too animated in the past that i made things worse. Try not to speak of something that you have to teach them like blood, they dont like to be teached, let the bible stumble them.

This is just from my experience and everyone is different, goodluck.

sweet pea

How many times does a loving, all powerful creator need to wipe out his creation and start over? Why even once?

breakfast of champions

LUKEWARM - according two two different bethel speakers at the DC, this is absolutely correct, just 900 or so years left of christ's millennial reign! Yay!!!

DesirousOfChange

For older ones with years in the Truth, the constant "putting off" of THE END, which is always right-around-the-corner, is taking its toll. The new overlapping-generation doctrine is confusing and many JDubs that I know secretly feel it will be adjusted again (and hopefully make some sense). Add to that, that most DO NOT know how many times it has changed, nor could they even begin to tell you what the past teaching were (even in their lifetime, let alone going back to Russell). See jwfacts.com about the generation and educate yourself about these constant changes of doctrine.

http://www.jwfacts.com/images/generationjw.jpg

This can be linked with the keynote speech which has always been real "prophetic history" to JDubs, given by Rutherford: "Millions Now Living Will Never Die!" In the new DVD (Disc #1 from last year's Dist Conv) they refer to this speech as "Millions.......MAY Never Die!" Fact is, Rutherford did deliver the speech the FIRST time as "MAY Never Die", but changed it to increase the dynamics of it after that, and it was published as "...WILL NEVER DIE!" This "prophetic" statement has been clung to, until just recently. JDubs who caught the switch on the DVD were agag about it as the fact that it was originally titled as "...MAY Never Die" was only mentioned once in modern JW history. (Proclaimers book) It seems to me that they may claim in the Revelation Climax book that this qualifies as one of the "trumpet blows of Revelation" (help me out here folks!!! isn't that right???) More on this publication here:

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1925.php

The question to propose is: Why would God's Holy Spirit direct his Organization to "speak" or publish "false prophecy". (It's NOT prophecy.) OK, then, why would God's Spirit Directed Organization "speak" or publish FALSE STATEMENTS? (To weed out those without faith or to test the faithfulness of the Witnesses.) Are not False Statements = LIES? Thus, God's Holy Spirit directs His Organization to speak UNTRUTHS or LIES in order to test His faithful followers. How would we know what statements or teaching today are Truths or UN-Truths/LIES? Read Titus 1:2 -- "....God, who cannot lie....." Read James 1:13 -- "let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."

There's a start for you.

Your best way to proceed may be to be showing sincere interest to understand more, and use that as an opportunity to "ask questions". You will not be able to make direct use of "apostate" websites in your discussions, but rather it would be better to have such information provided by someone at work etc. You will thus be "innocent" of seeking out apostate information. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at work or elsewhere among your friends has looked into it for their own benefit as well.

Ding

"If Jehovah has had one organization on earth since the days of the apostles, why didn't Brother Russell find it and join it?"

"Does this mean Jehovah now has two organizations?"

Mad Sweeney

according two two different bethel speakers at the DC, this is absolutely correct, just 900 or so years left of christ's millennial reign! Yay!!!

This would be significant new light. In the past the belief was that the 1000 year countdown didn't start in 1914, but instead wouldn't begin until Jesus focused his attention on the earth at Armageddon. Are they trying to subtly slip a new understanding in on the rank and file to help deflect any 2014 issues and pave the way for future twists of doctrine?

Do you happen to recall which two talks this was mentioned in?

Logical Questions to Make Them Think?

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