JW nephew graduation party cancelled... your insight is requested

by Alfred 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    The asking elders to step down if their kid is in college is a NEW directive as of the 2010-11 Kingdom Ministry School for Elders.

    It isn't a blanket policy, though. The statement was that if an elder encourages young people to attend higher education or allows his kids to do so, he will be spoken to by the rest of the body to determine whether he is still fit to serve.

    My understanding is that the BOE would review an elder's qualifications if any of his family membes went to college based on how it affected their spirtuality. Are they still "putting the Kingdom first in their lives? Which would mean, How are their FS hours? Are they at all the meetings?

  • Velour
    Velour

    My apologies for my statement. I really do not have all of the information needed to make such a statement. I only have my own experience and knowledge of how things were handled in the area I was in. It was not uncommon for the MS and Elders in my area to treat their own family harsher than other members in the cong in order to show that they have their family under control and are still able to lead the rest of the cong. I was constantly reminded by my father how everything I did reflected on him and affected his position, mostly because he was reminded all the time as well. As he reached out for more and more "privledges" in the congregation he became more and more strict and exacting.

    A few months before I left, his paranoia about being a stumbling to others in the congreagation became extreme. He told my family to stop commenting so much at the meetings because other elders told him that my family were mic hogs, as if the study overseer didn't have a choice and just HAD to call on my family. My sisters and I weren't allowed to wear our hair natural, heads full of curls, because it would look like he couldn't even get his daughters to groom themselves properly. If my little brother did anything percieved as "gay" (mind you, he's the baby brother of 3 sisters) like play dolls or sway his hips, he had to go to whoever witnessed his actions and apologize. Another family, in a congregation we were in for a few years, had 3 young children, when other kids played after the meetings, these young kids were not allowed to join in, they had to stay with one of their parents and listen to the adults talk about "spiritually upbuilding" things. In this same congregation, an elder would make his 8 year old son stand at the end of the isle in front of everyone if he fell asleep in the meeting. Embarrassment is a terrible discipline tool. I know another young guy, in a different congregation, who spent time in high school rebuilding an old chevy. After he graduated his elder father made him sell it to get a more reliable and accommodating service car.

    I've seen parents dismiss their children for the sake of theocracy and not stumbling anyone in the congregation.

    Again, however, just because I only have this limited knowledge doesn't make it right of me to broadly paint all situations like this. I certainly didn't mean to offend and my apologies for doing that.

  • CuriousButterfly
    CuriousButterfly

    What harsh reaction. From what you wrote he was primarily a great kid so why pull the rug out from underneath him for liking a "wordly" girl? It is bad enough JWs do not celebrate holidays, cannot go to school dances/proms. This is one of the few parties we are allowed to have. Poor kid...

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Wow.

    Who hasn't told a fib or two when it comes to the opposite sex? If it is the typical high profile witness family, they may have extracted a pledge to go off to Bethel or pioneer, leaving the opposite sex out of the picture.

    How cruel of his father. Graduation is one of 2, only 2, times in your life you get a big party; that and weddings.

    Shame on his cowardly parents.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    I'm going to take a different path here and play the DEVIL'S ADVOCATE by giving the JW view on this subject rather than the enlightened, common-sense, humane point of view that most of us have.

    From the JW point of view, the parent's actions were completely justified - in fact they didn't go as far as the WTB&TS would have encouraged - they didn't beat him with a rod.

    The parents are the authorities in their home, with authorization from god to maintain discipline and obediance. As an elder, the boy's father must demonstrate that he can administer the same sort of dispassionate justice as the god he serves, lest he loose his position as a loving sheperd in the Congregation of God.

    This kid is not an impulsive child - he understands the rules, yet, like Adam, he chose to break them. He needs to be punished, and punished in a manner that will make a long-lasting impression on him. As humans, we remember those events that carry an emotional impact.

    If the boy is truly repentant, he should ask his father to please stone him to death so that he might be assured a ressurection in Paradise.

    His disobedience cost him his long-awaited graduation party. God is love. Hopefully this loving discipline from his paretns will preserve his life when Armageddon arrives. It is now almost as close as it was in 1975.

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    Rather than going straight for the Phantom Menace-style anti-JW lecture, I'd utilize the kink that's already in his armor. Ask him about the girl. Ask him if he still has feelings for her. Imagine how horrible this summer is for him, being totally in love (even if it's just a temporary fling) and having it completely stolen. Having a manipulative friend stab him in the back. The hurt, shame, embarrasment and blue balls are intolerable--I remember going through it myself. USE it. Get him to open up about his feelings for the girl, his frustration at the situation and then very carefully say something like, "Isn't it crazy how a volunteer organization can control people's lives SO MUCH?" and then relate a similar personal story. If he's a stellar 'Dub, be careful about attacking doctrine. Instead, emphasize how you're "still very spiritual" but you have some minor conflicts of interest about how people are treated in "matters just like the one you're going through." Establishing common ground is key. Leave it in his hands by offering to be there for support if he ever has to vent frustrations in the future. Say something like, "I know you respect and love your parents and they believe they're doing the right thing out of love, but there may be things you feel you can never share with them. If you've ever got something on your mind, you know I'm OK to talk to and anything you say or express stays in the vault. You're a good kid, hang in there and congratulations on graduating."

    Good luck and keep us posted!

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    I guess I would tell him, in a private moment, that you think his parents are being dicks, and leave it at that.

  • NomadSoul
    NomadSoul

    If he's really in love with her, he's on his way out. Specially after he gets all this treatment. Just support him and let him know you think what they did was wrong.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    NRFG, the thing is this.

    A person who reaches out to be an elder, is requesting worship from the rank and file.

    Before your head explodes, consider that at nearly every DC we are reminded that obedience to the elders is the same as obedience to Jehovah.

    So, hearing that, when you step up to the job, you are asking to be on that plane; that obeying you is the same as obeying God.

    That is the program.

    So it is hard to believe that most have pure motives; after all, the GB has your back: OBEY the elders like you obey God.

    And sacrificing your family is not optional; if you are an elder, you will have to toss your df'd child who is not a minor, regardless of his emotional or financial circumstance.

  • No Room For George
    No Room For George

    NRFG, the thing is this.

    A person who reaches out to be an elder, is requesting worship from the rank and file.

    In my best middle aged woman's voice, "LOL!!!!! Stop it!!! Stop it!!! OMG, OMG LOL!!!!!!!"

    Before your head explodes, consider that at nearly every DC we are reminded that obedience to the elders is the same as obedience to Jehovah.

    Ok, that's fair, and true to a degree.

    So, hearing that, when you step up to the job, you are asking to be on that plane; that obeying you is the same as obeying God.

    I can't speak on behalf of everybody else, but I can speak for myself and those close to me and tell you emphatically many aren't necessarily asking to be on that plane. For many it was a simple case of brothers going along with the flow of things in the congregation. Not every brother appointed got on from being ambitious or kissing booty.

    That is the program.

    As far as obeying elders being the same as obeying God, that depends on the day of the week. The sheep will follow the program in many cases so long as it doesn't cramp their style. Yes, there's plenty of WT articles that will support your point, however there's plenty of WT's that will emphasize the imperfection of those taking the lead which I'll concede is a bandaid on the problem of overly prideful elders. However its not completely uncommon for some in the congregation to not take some elders seriously, often some sisters , which are a couple of the reasons the WT has to print those "Jehovah=Elders" articles in the first place!!! Which is why I say it depends on the day of the week regarding, "The Program."

    So it is hard to believe that most have pure motives; after all, the GB has your back: OBEY the elders like you obey God.

    This forum is made of people who've experienced the worst of what goes on in WT-Land, and I think we should be cautious in gauging the experiences found here as being typical of what happens in all congregations. I've posted enough about myself, with enough of the bad and faulty to show people the flipside of the coin from another perspective. It ain't all peaches and cream having some friggin title.

    And sacrificing your family is not optional; if you are an elder, you will have to toss your df'd child who is not a minor, regardless of his emotional or financial circumstance.

    In this case, I'll concede its a tricky situation for this elder due to the very fact that this situation went public via Facebook. However, I'm not entirely convinced that this father wouldn't have done the same had this situation remained a private family matter. The kid lied, on multiple occasions, and about a serious matter in WT Land. I'll agree with those who say, "What kid hasn't done the same?" Heck, I did it when I was a teenager, and up until my early twenties. However, there's other parameters we have to consider such as "marrying only in the Lord", or dating with a "view towards marriage" amongst other WT nuances. Not to mention again, the kid lied on multiple occassions to his father. You can't really fault the father in this case as an elder, when you also have to consider that he has to be a responsible parent. He's got that right to cancel this graduation party if he sees fit due to his son's actions, regardless of the JW angle.

    By the way, not that I'm justifying the other kid ratting, but if this kid wouldn't have got caught seeing this nonJW girl, how long would this situation have went on unbeknownst to the parents? How long would the kid have played the role of a young JW supposedly doing everything right to the point that other parents would hold him up as an example for other young JWs to emulate? I'm sure those are questions the father and heck, the mother too, probably considered before making their decision.

    For the record, I hope the kid wakes up too and makes his move from this religion.

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