Association: Am i being lied to?

by roxanesophia 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jwfacts

  Try this quote with her.

  *** w87 9/15 pp. 11-12 pars. 7-9 Breathing This World’s “Air” Is Death-Dealing! ***

  7 Christians too were under the “authority,” or control, of this polluted “air” before they learned the truth of God’s Word and began to conform to his righteous standards. “Yes, among them [worldly people] we all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed by the flesh and the thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath even as the rest.” But upon becoming Christians, we stopped breathing in the death-dealing “air” of this world. We ‘put away the old personality which conformed to our former course of conduct and put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.’—Ephesians 2:3; 4:22-24.

  8 The danger now is that after escaping from this world’s polluted atmosphere we may be enticed to go back into it. Here we are, deep into “the time of the end” and on the very threshold of the new world. (Daniel 12:4) Surely, we do not want to lose out because of falling into the same traps as did the Israelites. After they had been miraculously delivered from Egypt and had arrived at the border of the Promised Land, thousands “were laid low in the wilderness.” Why? Because some became idolaters, others committed fornication, and still others put Jehovah to the test by their murmuring and complaining. Paul makes a powerful point in saying: “Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.”—1 Corinthians 10:1-11.

  9 Regarding his disciples, Jesus prayed: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one.” (John 17:14, 15) Jehovah will safeguard us, but he does not place “a hedge” around us, nor does he miraculously shield us from this world’s “air.” (Job 1:9, 10) So our challenge is to be in Satan’s world, yet being no part of it, to be surrounded by its contaminated “air,” yet not breathing it in. When we read secular publications, watch television, or go to places of entertainment, we are likely to be exposed to the world’s “air.” While some contact with worldly people is unavoidable—at work, at school, and otherwise—we must be vigilant so as to keep from being sucked back into the death-dealing atmosphere of this world.—1 Corinthians 15:33, 34.
• 

  GLTirebiter

  You don't need to trust us unbelievers; just read what the Watchtower organization say in their own publications. There is no doubt that they strongly condemn ties outside the organization. This quotation is from The Watchtower, June 15, 1980, page 8:

  What It Takes to Keep Separate from the World

  Without a doubt, our appreciating just how wicked and corrupt Satan's world is will help us to keep separate from the world. Such appreciation will make it easy for us to obey the command found at Psalm 97:10: "Oh you lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad." No matter how pleasant, how enticing, wicked things are to the fallen flesh, we must abhor them, even as the apostle commands. (Rom. 12:9) More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good. As David of old expressed it: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, oh Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies." (Ps. 139:21,22) We hate them, not in the sense of wanting to do them harm but in the sense of avoiding them as we would poison or a poisonous snake, for they can poison us spiritually. That is why we are warned: "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits."--1 Cor. 15:33

  And let it be noted that this staying clean from wicked persons applies not just to persons whom we may happen to meet or be thrown together with in our everyday affairs of life but also to those whom we choose as associates when it comes to entertainment. Remember, we are commanded: "Let fornication and uncleanness of every sort or greediness not even be mentioned among you, just as it befits holy people; neither shameful conduct." (Eph. 5:3, 4) This means we not only avoid making such things be mentioned in our presence, as by watching a TV program or attending a motion picture where such things are the subject of conversation. Instead, let us make it a point to cultivate associations with fully devoted fellow believers, not only at the congregation and in the field activities but also socially. Yes, to keep separate from the world we must watch our associations; on one hand, avoiding bad ones and, on the other hand, being diligent to associate with those who, like us, are no part of the world.

  So, lets look at how the non-Witness world is portrayed here. Remember, use of emotionally strong words ("loaded language") and an us vs. them mentality denying any middle ground ("false dichotomy") are two logical fallacies often employed as emotional persuasion by high-control groups.

  • "wicked and corrupt"
  • "Satan's world"
  • "we must abhor them"
  • "haters of what is good"
  • "we hate them"
  • "a poisonous snake"
  • "poison us spiritually"
  • "bad associations" ("associations" is indeed what this article is about--they will try to talk their way around that!)
  • "wicked persons...those whom we choose as associates" (see above)
  • "shameful conduct"
  • "cultivate associations with fully devoted fellow believers" (only Witnesses qualify)
  • "and also socially" (in every part of your life, stick with the Witnesses)
  • "keep separate from the world"
  • "watch our associations"
  • "avoiding the bad ones"
  • "diligent to associate with those, who like us..."
  • "no part of the world"

  Also, please check the bible references in their full context, using the translation of your choice.

  "Deceitfully they invoke your name; your foes swear faithless oaths." Psalm 139:20
• 

  trillaz

  If you are still studying, you can ask "What is a bad association". She will probably waiver on but ask about examples and once she is done explaining, you can ask again or state that it does not sound like you are free to associate with anyone.
• 

  Black Sheep

  There are some nice quotes here, but if you are going to quote WT documents, try to stick to stuff that is available to Joe Bloggs surfing the Watchtower's official website, or material that she has given you, so that you don't give the game away that you have help from Satan

  I suggest that you either remain uneducated or portray innocent ignorance in your communications.

  You are doing very well. Tread carefully.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  Heaven

  It's not just worldly friends that you will be encouraged to drop but also your worldly family. If I were you, I'd walk away from this group as soon as you can... and never look back.
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  nugget

  They will not come outright and say that you cannot have worldly friends but the conversation will be something along the lines that people who are not witnesses have different standards and may try to pressure you to go against gods word.

  You are better off limiting contact with these friends to protect your spirituality.

  After a while when you no longer celebrate holidays it becomes less embarrassing to drop these friends than have to explain that you no longer celebrate and can't sign cards etc.

  The pressure is always there the bad associations scripture and they will tell you that you can only find true friends inside Jehovahs organisation. You will find yourself isolating yourself from everyone you knew pre JWs.

  A better question to ask would be if I got baptised but then had doubts or felt I had made a mistake and left the organisation would my JW friends still associate with me? JW friends are conditional on obedience.
• 

  kimbo

  yes she lied
• 

  mindseye

  Technically what she is saying is true. As an individual with free will you can do whatever you want. But there will be repercussions. Mad Sweeney's post is right on the money.

  My Witness family often uses this line of reasoning on me. They realize how much I value my independence, so they will say "Oh, you're overreacting. You are free to do x, y, z...." Then I ask, well what if I go to see a Rated R movie with my 'worldly' friend? What if I have a book about Charles Darwin, St. Augustine or Buddha on my bookshelf? What if I want to grow a goatee? Well then the answers get more complicated.

  "It's a matter of conscience" and "You can do that, but why would you want to disobey Jehovah?" or some of the answers I get. Basically if you stray from the script they put you through a guilt trip. Reactions vary, but a person who has 'worldly' habits can be ostracized, 'talked' to, or disfellowshipped.

  Basically the JW religion is an authoritarian group. It acts like a Daddy figure for the members. And like a kid, you can do what you want, but expect consequences!
• 

  moshe

  A better way to ask this question is-

  Would I be considered spiritualy strong, if I have many worldly friends?

  I'm pretty sure she will anwer "no" on that one-

  Next question-

  Should a spiritually weak person get baptized?

  NO, = you have to dump your outside friends to be a JW.
• 

  sizemik

  Once you are a member the scripture "Bad associations spoil useful habits" is droned over and over again.

  You will hear this one more than a few times also . . . . 2 Cor 6;

  14 Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever?

  While the sister may not have been telling a direct lie . . . association with any outside the congregation is only sanctioned under the guise of "leading them to salvation"

  Any prolonged association with outsiders for purely social reasons is heavily frowned upon, and would probably eventually invoke some "personal counsel"

  You're dealing with a high-control religion . . . a cult . . . cutting you off from any who might "wake you up" is a controlling tactic . . . even if it is presented as "protecting your spirituality" Read through the following list of cult charcteristics and see how many seem familiar. They are not anti-witness and are presented from a neutral source . . .

  http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm