Sometimes it is difficult to know if they believe what they are saying.
Pay more attention to the expression on the left side of the face as it is not so consciously controlled and is more expressive of emotion.
Association: Am i being lied to?
by roxanesophia 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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InterestedOne
Left from my perspective or their actual left (right from my perspective)?
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Black Sheep
Their left ... your right
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DagothUr
The use 1Cor. 3:2 in order to feed your mind with acceptable things and hide the restrictions from you. As an unbaptized publisher, they say you have all sorts of freedoms. After you become baptized, the start the requirements and the demands and the guilt-trips. Those are the meat, the truth of God, as they say. One of these "truths" is that you must have minimal contacts with your worldly friends. Go to dinner with one or more of them and you will become a close friend of the elders (evil grin).
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sizemik
i went to parties and they'd hug me hello and goodbye. Then back at the hall, barely even a hello. IT'S JUST SO WEIRD.
In a couple of congregations I belonged to there was a polarising effect because they can be a bit cliquey. If you become unconsciously attached to a certain set, some of the others can be a bit cool just because of that. On the other hand some individuals will make a fuss of you because they are competing for your allegiance
Those that you identify with most will be more relaxed away from the KH because they are no longer being observed by their rival clique(s).
It can be complicated and socially confusing at times . . . because they're locked into this artificial environment without outside influence . . . they don't know any better. If you stayed long enough it would become clearer but its basically an insular kind of pettiness. I belonged to 8 different congregations . . . none were genuinely united and universally accepting socially.
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outsmartthesystem
"What kind of person even cares what religious beliefs their friend has? They should want to be friends with you regardless of what you believe. Heaps of people we work with want to be friends with us, they don't care about religion."Then i asked "So you'd be friends with people at work?"
Then she says, "No." and rattled off scriptures.
But then sometimes she sweetens it with "But it's a conscience matter." as if to say they are still completely in control."It sounds like you are starting to understand their mindset. Example 1: "I'm sad. I don't have any worldly friends". Your study conductor replies with "that's because the 'love of the greater number' has cooled off. The world is a cold and dark place. You need the organization". Example 2: "My wordly friends are wonderful!". Your study conductor replies with "that's because they are directed by Satan. Satan is very smart. He "keeps transforming himself into an angel of light" so as to use your wordly friends to make you think that the world is a safe and caring place. But it is all a facade. You need the organization."
The point is......Jehovah's Witnesses use circular reasoning....AND they have been trained to use whatever statement is made to prop up the organization. Another example: If the number of witnesses in a particular geographical area increases - then it is proof that Jehovah is blessing the preaching work and the end is right around the corner. If it decreases, then "men are advancing from bad to worse" just like the bible said and the end is right around the corner. There is ALWAYS a scripture they can take out of context to suit whatever argument is needed.
"She'll mention things like "You have to start coming with us." when talking about social outings, then i'm never actually invited. What's this? Is it reminding me that I'm not entitled to the association yet? "
This is another bit of a conundrum for witnesses. Whether or not they like to admit it....almost all witnesses are in cliques. These 4 elders wives like to have coffee on Friday morning and gossip. This bunch of elders' kids like to hang out but they don't like to invite Timmy because Timmy gleeks when he talks. The point is.....the congregation is just like anywhere else in the world. Some people want to hang out with you and some don't. You mesh with some people. Others not so much. Regardless of your surroundings....it takes a little while before you feel comfortable beign part of them and they feel comfortable letting you in. Really. Think about starting a new job. I doubt if you hit the bar on Friday night....one week into the job pounding down shooters with your workmates while discussing your boss' severe case of halitosis. It takes time for everyone to feel comfortable. But rest assured (or perhaps you should be worried).......the day is coming shortly when everyone in the Hall WILL feel more comfortable around you. You'll be invited to EVERYTHING....which will "prove" how much love they have among themselves....and will (possibly) be the last bump you need to move towards baptism.
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roxanesophia
Hi Pam's girl, sorry to hear you struggled with agoraphobia ... I had some degree of that myself. And i know too well how quickly witnesses dump what they consider a defective model and no use in the organization. My intellectually disabled bro experienced that. The brothers calling on him said "But he looked normal!" and never came back.
It's wonderful that you moved on after associating with the organization. I've had panic attacks over it when i' m not even actively a part of it yet. I'm sorta scared to leave because i went so far into it and now i worry what gossip there'll be when I'm gone.
Go to dinner with one or more of them and you will become a close friend of the elders (evil grin) - HAHAHAHA! Damn, this is completely terrifying me. The elders are so overly nice to me right now being a study and all. I can't imagine how they change once i become Watchtower property, but i believe you.If you become unconsciously attached to a certain set, some of the others can be a bit cool just because of that - sizemik
Can you explain further what you mean by that? Does "a bit cool" mean stand off-ish?
Outsmartthesystem: EXACTLY. They can use Satan in every argument and it's frustrating because they CAN.
.the day is coming shortly when everyone in the Hall WILL feel more comfortable around you. You'll be invited to EVERYTHING....which will "prove" how much love they have among themselves....and will (possibly) be the last bump you need to move towards baptism.
Hahaha this sounds like sarcasm. Are you saying this will happen to trick me into baptism (and HELL, it'll probably work), since you said "which will prove how much love they have among themselves." OH JEEZ, I'm so looking forward to the day they decide to involve me in everything because it sure as hell ain't here yet. Yes, that was sarcasm. OH GOD, here comes high school 2.0 -
Black Sheep
They can use Satan in every argument and it's frustrating because they CAN
Really????
How do you know that????
Pop down to the library and get some books out that teach critical thinking and educate yourself....... then use your new skills to work out if Satan is real, or if someone has been pulling your leg.
Cheers
Chris
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sizemik
Can you explain further what you mean by that? Does "a bit cool" mean stand off-ish?
Yes . . . that is what I mean. The cliqueyness often stems from an underlying competitiveness with some regarding their witnessing. Your study conductor could well invoke some jealousy with others who see themselves as having some status as effective preachers and teachers also. As another poster mentioned, having a study from the territory is a bit of a trophy catch.
They're only human. But this will translate into a difference about the way your viewed by different ones. It will also create a difference with those who you become friendly with. They will be more natural out of the KH (when among their genuine friends) and more guarded inside the KH (when they are being observed by rivals).
The above will apply to a greater or lesser degree depending on the congregation. But it may explain your percieving a difference in their behaviour in and away from the KH.
Hope this makes sense and helps somewhat.
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roxanesophia
Black Sheep: Oh i completely believe in Satan, just through people I know who dabbled in the occult, but everyone has their own beliefs. My point is they can use Satan to justify anything and they do.
sizemik: They will be more natural out of the KH (when among their genuine friends) and more guarded inside the KH (when they are being observed by rivals).
Ah, I see what you mean. Well, that's REALLY shitty. I have to think long and hard about subjecting myself to that environment. I don't cope well with hypocrisy and two faced people. Didn't know having a study was a trophy, but i always suspected it.I try to talk to whoever is around, and i often wonder what my study teacher thinks of it. I'm always thinking "Is she friends with this person?" and I hate it. Your post confirmed my worst fears. But you're right, they're human. I'm being the unreasonable one here with high expectations. I never experienced this before though because i wasn't a regular at the hall. I liked it better when i wasn't. my teacher is pretty highly valued in the congregation, and seems to get along with everyone, but i guess that could make her the secret rival of at least someone in there.
All this is making sense why an MS saw me with someone he hangs out with and made a point to come over and ask "Did you come together?" as if he was concerned or curious if we were friends. Maybe it's me, but that's just something people don't ask someone, RIGHT? But it didn't make me feel good and i still wonder what he meant.