A few Dawkins quotes to think about.

by AK - Jeff 328 Replies latest jw friends

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  PSacramento

  ancient man had love in bucketloads for his own tribe, the suffering of which he could not tolerate, particularly if it could be alleviated by conquering and destroying those who were not his own and taking what they had for what was perceived to be a greater good. It is the way it was, and the way it still is.

  So, evolution DOESN' T explain our issue with the suffering of others or animlas, just the suffering of those we "know" ?

  I am sure ancient man was NOT happy and cried "not fair" whenever something "unloving" was done to him too, wonder why since there was NO REASOn why He shoudl think that it was "unfair".

  Personally I think that evolution DOES play a role in our compassion and love, I just don't think that it is the ONLY thing.

  Evolution is what we go through when exposed to "enviromental changes" ( simplified yes, but bare with me)and we evolved when exposed to the environmental changes that was Love, compassion and a "higher moral".
• 

  Nickolas

  This dear one, having assisted in healing a few others (including someone with some form of cancer), approached and told the young man, "I want to help you. I can heal you, if you have faith and want me to." The young man's response? "No thank you; I don't want to be healed. I LIKE me... just the way I am."

  I would have reacted the same way, Shelby, but I might have silently added, "now get away from me, you fruitcake."

  I truly hope it wasn't that I offended, dear Nick

  Absolutely not, dear lady. I took offense to something you said months and months ago, but I realised soon after I was jumping to a wrong conclusion. I just didn't have words to respond. Still don't.

  The question is: Does love itself evolve or is it just something we uncovered. Is it a force of nature that existed before us (like gravity) or is it a construct of the conscious mind?

  My wife and I are bird lovers. We have two feeders in our back yard and we keep them full year-round. We have cardinals, gold and red finches, bluejays, grossbeaks, sparrows, nuthatches, doves, grackles, black birds, etc. etc. constantly in the bushes and trees that surround us. A sharp-shinned hawk has taken notice and every once in awhile it sits in our big walnut tree and waits. Last week it nailed a mourning dove, leaving only a pile of feathers on the lawn. The doves are into their second brood. Since last week, the mate of the hawk's victim has perched itself on a limb overhanging the pile of feathers just looking and waiting. It is still there as I type this. Is that love? Grief, perhaps? It's something, to be sure, but what?
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  sabastious

  Isn't interesting that, while they can't vocalize, female apes still tend to show affection (love) for their young (and males tend to consider them a nuisance when they're young - LOL!)? I can't tell if you're being sarcastical, dear Trev (peace to you!), but for those who believe what you've posted (and I know a LOT of "christians" do), the statement is ridiculous. There is not difference between man and beast other than vessel and... [some levels of] intellect. They think and feel just as we do. True, they can't do quantum physics (at least, not with the vessels they have), but they're not all as "dumb" as some arrogantly believe they are.

  Do you believe that creatures such as ants or termites "think and feel" just as we do? What about tape worms?

  -Sab
• 

  Nickolas

  Evolution is what we go through when exposed to "enviromental changes" ( simplified yes, but bare with me)and we evolved when exposed to the environmental changes that was Love, compassion and a "higher moral".

  I think you have that right, Paul.
• 

  sabastious

  Since last week, the mate of the hawk's victim has perched itself on a limb overhanging the pile of feathers just looking and waiting. It is still there as I type this. Is that love? Grief, perhaps? It's something, to be sure, but what?

  Calling that love seems a valid hypothesis to me.

  -Sab
• 

  trevor

  I can't tell if you're being sarcastical, dear Trev (peace to you!)

  I'm not sure myself!

  You see many Christians believe in evolution. Also that they have souls that go to heaven and animals don't. Logically there must have been a moment when the soul was added. I do realize that you have a different view of soul and spirit but I am speaking generally
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  sabastious

  But I think it's also a valid hypothesis to say that that dove is tapping into a force that precedes all of us and the reason why the dove's "love" appears "lesser" than ours is because of intellect.

  -Sab
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  Nickolas

  I'm on your page, sab.

  edit: consider, too, that many species of birds mate for life, including mourning doves. We have a pair of bluejays, who also mate for life, who are so old they're actually bald and no longer mating, but they're still together.
• 

  trevor

  On the matter of love, I see it as an emotion that we attach to what we value. The more couscious we are, the greater our capacity to love. Love can turn to hate if what we value is threatened. So our capacity to hate also increases.
• 

  tec

  But I think it's also a valid hypothesis to say that that dove is tapping into a force that precedes all of us and the reason why the dove's "love" appears "lesser" than ours is because of intellect.

  Quite possibly OUR intellect.

  (or lack of it in this matter, as we have a tendency to be arrogant about such things)

  Tammy