by flipper 56 Replies latest jw friends
It seems anymore the only ones that should be perfect are the rank and file!
The GB flip flops- Oh that is just "new light" or "We never said that, you guys were speculating on your own!"
Elders mess up - "Oh just imperfect men, doing the best they can"
Joe publisher messes up "Get the hell out of here, and don't let the door hit you on the way out!"
Qualifications for position of Elder :
* Experience in window washing an advantage
* College education a distinct disadvantage (e.g., may lead to questioning attitude and spirit of pride)
* Having a wife who thinks you are Mr Perfect will definitely impress the selection committee, as will the feminine tendency to sniff subtly when she passes by brothjers and sisters who are struggling to control their noisy children
* Ability to proudly and persistently disown any wayward children you have fathered will give you a distinct advantage
* Ability to unquestioningly follow orders from the WT essential
* Ability to clearly communicate with flock preferred but not indispensable
* Ability to preach double-standards required
* Knowledge of complexity of human nature not required; brothers and sisters are simply good or bad - all else is excuse-making
* Experience and skills in assessing and creating guilt and obligation essential
* Preparedness to turn a blind eye to foibles of fellow elders required
* Readiness to protect Jehovah's name (and the WT) at all costs a prime requirement. For example, there are no pedophiles in Jehovah's organization, but there are some in the flock who are intent on making troubling allegations and embarrassing us. You will be called upon to act swiftly to admonish, reprove or remove these ones as appropriate.
* having an untroubled conscience about your impact on vulnerable brothers and sisters will be a distinct advantage
to all those who mentioned how stupid it is to compare elders to doctors, remember this, too:
Doctors can be held responsible and liable for maltreatment and negligence. Just sayin'.
Elders are imperfect, poor them. So they make imperfect decisions do they? And the flock may be unlovable so even if they make a hash of looking after them they should be commended failure is the fault of the ungrateful flock.
In my experience there are nice elders and bad elders. There are those that live it and believe it and try to shepherd the flock. The society lets them down because it does not give them the tools to be truly effective and to deal with some of the situations they come across. Kindness and compassion is not enough and they are let down and in danger of causing real damage despite themselves. There are bad elders who want the position and use the congregations as a personal fiefdom. Their familes get away with everything and they are in love with the power. They are unjust, vengeful and cruel. They do not care how their decisions impact on others. I suspect they know it is rubbish, they certainly do not fear god or his retribution.
So when do the congregation get a break, when do their imperfections get overlooked and when do they get to feel the love?
.
FLIPPER:
Thanks again for another great post. I know the elders are imperfect. That much is painfully obvious. The problem is when these 'imperfect' and under-educated men cause major life problems for people and then expect to be both simultaneously cut 'slack' for being imperfect, yet be looked up to. And I never believed they were appointed by holy spirit. It seemed to me that the religion was elevating them ever higher, higher....
SIZEMIK:
I always suspected that elders wives with jealousy issues were the driving force behind those 'special talks about modesty' aimed at attractive sisters and their clothing. I wasn't fooled for a minute. I knew what camp the criticism was mostly coming from. If these elders wives had their way the sisters would be wearing a burka.
Thanks for all the responses ! Worked all last night, will try to respond to everybody.
OTWO- Exactly, elders are like kings and dictators. They rule their kingdom called the JW congregation within individual kingdom halls.
MRFREEZE- I knew some elders who were polite or nice also. Yet knew just as many if not more who were into power trips and quite ennamored with themselves.
DESIROUSOFCHANGE- This article is DEFINITELY giving a loophole to elders for being unkind to JW's by saying some JW's are " gard " to deal with. So if brother elder is man, oh well he tried, he's just imperfect. It's such a crock. They might as well be Pope's like you say.
STEVE 2- Yes indeed, the WT society will so readily condemn OTHER religions elders or leaders, but make excuses for their own elders. Typical.
SIZEMIK- I was a MS for 6 years and I saw the same thing you did with men in the congregation stumbling over themselves to kiss up to elders to reach out for positions. I can only imagine the stress you felt once you became an elder having to deal with bonehead fellow elders trying to be picky towards sisters with short dresses. And the crazy thing about it- is the elders wives pushed for the lady to be counseled ! Many elders I knew were into power and position too.
HEATHEN- I had elders follow me around and spy on me too. It was creepy.
WTWIZARD- As your examples so aptly showed the WT society basically wants to control everything that JW's do and they train their elders to do the same. I'd say " hounders " is a very apt description. Excuses will always be made for the elders- but not rank and file publishers.
JWGONEBAD- I agree tens of thousands of families have been broken up by the DFing policies of the WT society with elders being the enforcers. Yet it is interesting the term they use " may be using " indicates even the WT society may have doubts God is using elders ! Glad you brought that out.
CHEERIOS- Very true. The comparison with elders and doctors was absolutely moronic. As doctors go to schools for years to train.
HADIT- It is sad and infuriating that the elder arrangement the WT society uses inspires so much fear into rank and file JW's. But many elders as you say abuse the power and control they are given over these people. I agree, I knew some elders who didn't abuse it- but far too many did a lot. It is a patriarchal , manipulative chauvanistic organization which empowers men who have little recognition in the real world. So they make up for it by being hot shots in the JW cult. WT society is just using aLL JW's elders & publishers to promote their billion $$ business- very true.
AMBERSUN- I really agree with you. So many times I saw younger elders 20's to 30's abusing their power over older sisters in the congregation also. And if the older women said something to correct a younger elder they'd get counseled. It was awful. As you say so many of those mature older sisters could do a much better job of counseling on family matters - but the WT organization disrespects women's talents and views. It's demoralizing and disgusting !
LUKEWARM- It is interesting that the WT society states " Jehovah & Jesus MAY be using the elders ". I appreciate you mentioning that. Good find.
RADHESYAM- amazing they compare elders with doctors. How arrogant the WT society is.
BLONDIE- I agree many elders knew other elders were abusive generally towards publishers- but turned a blind eye to it just like they turn a blind eye to pedophiles in congregations. Essentially - elders turned a blind eye to aLL forms of abuse happening within congregations ! Abuse towards publishers, women, children , and ALL who were NOT in positions of power or control. Peace out, Mr.. Flipper
SNOOZY- Very true- I do think the JW religion should br DFed for their policies. And one step further- WT leaders should be imprisoned.
LOST GENERATION- Exactly. The WT society puts much higher standards out there for rank and file JW's than they put out for elders. So many excuses are made for those in power positions inside the Witnesses .
STEVE 2- Nice list there of " elder qualifications " . Most all of those things you mention are dead on true. I know it's said in jest- yet very true.
MR. FALCON- Good point you make. At least doctors are held legally liable for practicing bad medicine. Who holds the WT society legally liable for their damaging teachings and practices ? Very good point.
NUGGET- I knew some good elders but many I knew wanted power and control over the Witnesses in congregations. Many times it was not important to some elders in how they counseled people or the bedside manner they used. I remember getting counsel which was ONLY personal opinions of elders, not from the Bible or WT publications. And it was VERY illogical counsel. Many elders just shot off the hip. Without thinking how it would affect people. Dangerous really. Quite dangerous. As these men are looked up to as counselors- but many of them are dolts.
LONGHAIRGAL- I never believed these guys had holy spirit either. The danger as you state is that they are sO untrained or unskilled in actually handling many psychological problems which plague JW's. They only deal with the problem in how it may make things appear within the congregation - which may provide NO relief at all for the people involved ! Just ridiculous. Glad you liked the post. Thanks
Mr. Falcon wrote: 'to all those who mentioned how stupid it is to compare elders to doctors, remember this, too: Doctors can be held responsible and liable for maltreatment and negligence. Just sayin'.
Good point!
I can just hear JW Elders singing the lyrics to Family Guy song: ' I got diplomatic immunity. So, Rank & File, You can't sue.'
SIZEMIK:
I always suspected that elders wives with jealousy issues were the driving force behind those 'special talks about modesty' aimed at attractive sisters and their clothing. I wasn't fooled for a minute. I knew what camp the criticism was mostly coming from. If these elders wives had their way the sisters would be wearing a burka.
SIZEMIK- I was a MS for 6 years and I saw the same thing you did with men in the congregation stumbling over themselves to kiss up to elders to reach out for positions. I can only imagine the stress you felt once you became an elder having to deal with bonehead fellow elders trying to be picky towards sisters with short dresses. And the crazy thing about it- is the elders wives pushed for the lady to be counseled ! Many elders I knew were into power and position too.
I saw constant examples of lily-livered elders trotting out there wives petty concerns. I knew this because I had been "lobbied" by them myself at times.
The PO (at the behest of wifey) in my 2nd last congo viciously persecuted an elderly brother until he sold up and moved to another town. They then turned their attention to a 17 year old kid who hung himself in his garage . . . no, I'm not kidding.
In the last Congo i was in two elders actually came to blows on one of their front lawns. They were both vying for the recently vacated PO's job . . . one had the congo in his pocket . . . the other had the CO in his pocket . . . shame I missed it.
My new appointment was coming up at the next CO's visit . . . by then I was gone . . . like really gone.
Why would anyone want a part of that? . . . It was about ten years ago and I'm still disgusted with myself for thinking I could "change things"
My daughter was dfd for fornication. One of the elders on her jc continuously asked her questions, very personal that made her feel as though he were living a sexual fantasy through her kind of like a peeping tom. I guess the jc justifies this as this is how they conclude whether or not she was repentant. Asked one time o.k. to keep asking it was as though he got something sexual from this. Three men ,one woman, your already uncomfortable explaining it. Anyone else experience this?
