The mormons vs the jw?

by Nicolas 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • AIRVIEW1
    AIRVIEW1

    But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an EXPERIMENT upon my words, and exercise a PARTICLE OF FAITH, yea even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words. Alma 32:27 Book of Mormon

    High energy particle physics, Brigham Young University, Superconducting Super Collider, Senator Orrin Hatch, Senator Trent
    Lott,Louisiana State University,(CERN) European Particle accelerator
    research center, Geneva, Switzerland, 1975 "DIVINE VICTORY" assembly
    (LIGO) Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory, The Mississippi Stennis Space Center, The Thiokol Utah! Rocket plant,
    The Japanese Space program, The International Center for Superconductvity research in Japan, The International Center for Possibilty Thinking in Los Angeles, The Wall of Great Dreamers and
    Marie Osmond.

    All things work together for those who love God and are called according to his purpose.

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    The Momos are going thru a moderate phase of "leniency" at the moment.
    Doubtless this is because the Olympics are about to start and they want a nice moderate face for the world to see.
    Momos are different from Dubs. example. If you become inactive in the Mormon church you dont get ignored, you get HOUNDED. Theyre knocking on your door every second day "encouraging" you.
    Mormons is more "charismatic" than JWs as well. They are given to displays of emotion, and read these as "movings" of spirit.
    So there you go.
    They are a much bigger church than Dubs as well, there are supposed to be 10 million of them.
    Because of their history of being TERRIBLY persecuted back in the 1800s , they learned self sufficiency.
    This self sufficiency, wealth building, city building mentality has now become part of doctrine. Right now the Kingdom on earth is in Salt lake city, Utah, but their intention is to spread and spread until the whole earth is a mormon heaven on earth.
    Theyve got some historical problems.
    Joseph Smith was a letch, who invented a polygamous doctrine so he could bonk all the women.
    Mormons tend to try and conceal their polygamous history if they can.
    They dont appear to have a whole lot going on in terms of "false Prophecy',the main false prophecy that Momo apostates like to point out is the "Missouri Temple prophecy".
    Joe Smith predicted that Independence Missouri would be World Headquaters for Mormonism. Governor Boggs of Missouri had other Ideas. A huge range war flamed up, with the Mormons being almost exterminated and driven westward, ever westward, until they eventually settled in a place noone else wanted. Utah.

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    At least Mormons get to wear special sacred underwear.

    Ginny

    http://nowscape.com/mormon/undrwrmo.htm

    P.S. Whatever happened to Seven006's old pal, ExmormonRobertson, anyway? He was a funny guy!

    See also: "Playing on the exMormon board"
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8626&site=3

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    Hi, Nicholas,

    I do wish I knew how to paste other's comments and then respond to them directly, so that others could know WHAT I was responding to, but sorry to say, attempts in that direction have failed for me. Any suggestions gratefully accepted!

    You said Mormons are growing because they have lots of children, but that most of them will leave the faith anyway. This is often heard by us, but is not accurate on either count. The growth is because of the converts, who now number over half the membership of the Church. Less than half are those born in the faith. The convert rate is far exceeding the birth rate within the church each year and has for a very long time now.

    Also, most of the young people in the Church remain members all their lives, and raise their children in it also. Those who actually choose to leave it are free to do so, and are not shunned (we don't do the shunning thing, which we consider to be un-Christlike). Those raised in the Church typically find there is nothing that can come close to it that's worth having, nothing that brings them more joy, more closeness to God and to all that matters in life or in eternity. So they stay.

    Susan

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    Hi, Yadirf,

    You said "Mormons only go 'door to door' for a period of 'ONLY' 2 years. JWs on the other hand see their ministerial work as a life-long activity."

    I hear this a lot from JW family. In a way it is true, since we only have our young Sisters and Elder missionaries serve full time for two years. But the comparison is actually apples and oranges. Not so easily compared by generalities.

    Our full-time missionaries serve FULL TIME for two years. 10,000 hours is typical, if you want to calculate hours. How many Saturday mornings equal 10,000 hours? Funny that none of my JW relatives EVER have responded to that, but will change the subject abruptly. I'd really like to know. My guess would be years. Many, many years. Maybe a lifetime.

    Meanwhile, these young missionaries serve with a single-minded devotion for two full years, and then return to get on with their lives of ONGOING service and dedication to the work. Their two years is never the end of serving. Never the end of missionary work. Never the end of responsibility to God. It is just one part of a lifelong dedication. They will go on to serve in many different capacities, all on a volunteer basis, and many times will serve as missionaries again, though not full time again, since they will have families, jobs, and other responsibilities that must be attended to also.

    Fair is fair. If you want to hold up what JWs do as being so much better because it is lifelong, then you have to look at what Mormons also do lifelong. To do less is petty and deceptive. Let the facts stand for themselves. There is work enough for all to do. We don't bother to speak ill of you, so why do you focus so much on distorting the truth about us?

    Susan

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Each year, I travel to Salt Lake City during the thrid week of march for the Brain Share networking conference, held at the Salt Palace Convention Center. The even is sponsored by NOVELL who is owned by the Mormon Church.

    Now, during the 8-10 days that I am there I must admit that I am impressed by the city's overall cleanliness, friendliness and above all, the quiet, peaceful tranquility the inhabitants enjoy.

    Those of you who have lived in Boston/NYC/Chicago, you know how noisy and dirty life in the city can be, and how it's almost impossible to avoid a certain amount of stress.

    I found that mormons were well behaved, unassuming, and almost transparent. By transparent, I mean it felt as if they weren't really standing there, or sitting there, etc. I guess as a JW, it becomes difficult to cope with other groups who are similar, or perhaps better balanced and more successfull in their practices.
    Imagine other people, who are cleaner, smarter intellectually and a better fit it society!

    As a native foreigner, it was surprising that many in my country would convert to mormonism, but they do. I am not a fan of either religion any longer, but if I were forced to choose the "safer, more balanced" religion, the mormons are a better choice than the JW's.

    While the book of mormon is simply a plagiaristic paraphrasing of the christian bible, and the Joseph Smith teachings are illogical, the fruitage of individual mormons and their relationship to the world outside of the church is far more productive and beneficial than the JW's. I wouldn't join because I am not voluntarily financing anyone's beliefs, other than what uncle sam does indirectly with my taxes.

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    Hi, GoldDustWoman,

    I wish I could cut and paste so it would be easier to make responses to what you posted, but please bear with me since I'm not up to that high-tech challenge yet! Suggestions gratefully appreciated!!

    You said:

    1) All males, regardless of standing in the church, itself, are considered "priests" and can give blessings.

    Well, no, not so. Priests are first of all, ordained to that calling. Having the right anatomy doesn't make one a Priest. Second, they can only be ordained if they have demonstrated a worthiness to serve God and an understanding appropriate to that level. Most Priests are teenagers. Third, they can only function as Priests when they are living worthily. If they choose not to live as they know is right, they cannot function as Priests until their lives are back on track.

    5) Mormons are considered the most healthy in the American population, and are often used as a control group for medical studies.

    True! Thank you! Funny, though, how it is the clean lifestyle that makes this so, and yet people insist those very leaders who advocated that very lifestyle were not inspired of God. Hmmmm.

    6) They believe in three levels of heaven. The top being reserved for "good" Mormons. The middle for "bad Mormons and the rest of christians. The bottom for what's left over.

    Basically accurate, though many people will be in the "top" level who were not Mormon in this life. It's not really a matter of religion, but of the heart. What kind of person were you? How did you choose to live your life? That's the key. And that's the doctrine. The "good" people of all faiths will be in the "top" level, where, FINALLY, there will be no petty doctrinal differences.

    7) Mormons, unlike JW's, are very mainstream. In fact, they are very active in law enforcement and government.

    Yes, totally true. Thank you again!

    8) Strongly encourage higher education. Even building their own universities. All the Mormon kids I knew ALWAYS went to (BYU).

    Yes again! Brigham Young insisted upon education for the young women in the Church. He sent 12 women back east to attend medical school, something unheard of in his day. A hillarious (now) account in an eastern newspaper declared this educating of women to be the death knell of Mormonism because "all the blood will go to the women's brains instead of to their bellies so they will be unable to produce a new generation of Mormons!" Such was the state of men's thinking at the time. The education of women was just not done.

    Brigham Young, upon building the university (which was the first college west of the Mississippi), announced, "If you can only afford to send ONE of your children to this new school, send your eldest daughter, for your sons may work in the fields, and with his hands, but your daughters will be the mothers of the nation." Pretty advanced thinking for back then.

    9) Mormons put a very strong emphasis on tithing...The more given, the more prestige.

    Half true. We emphasize it as an important part of Christian life, yes. But prestige has nothing to do with it. Nobody knows how much anybody else gives. Only those few who are called to keep an accounting of the finances of the congregation know, and they can never speak of it. Like the widow's mite, those who have much are expected to give more, as 10% of what they earn would naturally be more than 10% of what a little child earns for an allowance. But as long as it is a full tithe given, that is all that counts in anybody's eyes. The dollar amount matters not at all, to anyone.

    10) Large families are encouraged. More kids, mean more Mormons. Also, they believe that the more children one has, the better chance there is to get into the top level of heaven.

    Again, partly true. Large families ARE encouraged. The family is the central unit of the Church. All our focus and emphasis is to be on our family, and on building a family so tightly united in love and faith that it is eternal and unbreakable. For anyone who has ever had a child to raise, you know this is a challenge. The more children, the greater the challenge. And the greater the fun! We believe in enjoying life, having fun, and teaching our children to enjoy life also.

    More children doesn't, however, equate with better chances of getting into heaven. Not everyone can have children. Not everyone SHOULD have children. Not everyone can raise more than one or two, or should try to. It is better to raise one child well than 12 hooligans with scruffy clothes and dirty faces who can barely spell their own names. For those who can raise 12 children well, good for them. I couldn't, and wouldn't want to. Considering the serious obligation and responsibility it is to raise a child, we never encourage anyone to become a "baby factory". The actual doctrine is for every child to be well born, meaning, wanted, welcomed, provided for, having two parents, loved, educated, nurtured physically, emotionally, and spiritually. For anyone who hasn't ventured into parenthood yet, it's tough!!!!

    May I say one thing that might enlighten some on this "Mormons and large families" thing? We believe that there are many spirits yet waiting to come to earth, who WILL be born somewhere, to someone. Every child brought into a good home, whether Mormon or some other good home, means one less child that has to be born to heartbreaking conditions elsewhere. Haven't we all seen children suffering because of the circumstances of their birth (poverty, child molestation, abuse, etc.)? If only there were enough good homes for those children to have been born to instead of where they are.

    I hope this helps clarify some things! Thanks for this opportunity.

    SUSAN

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    SusanHere (possibly a mormon):

    You stated:

    ______________________________________________________________________

    5) Mormons are considered the most healthy in the American population, and are often used as a control group for medical studies.

    True! Thank you! Funny, though, how it is the clean lifestyle that makes this so, and yet people insist those very leaders who advocated that very lifestyle were not inspired of God. Hmmmm.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    Does all cleanliness, hygiene and sanitation originate with religion? If religion is the PRIMARY catalyst for cleanliness, what were humans basing their standards on before Joseph Smith?

    Where did Joseph Smith obtain his standards? Let me guess, an angel named Moroni told him to wash his hands after peeing. Get real!

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    Hi, plmkvzy,

    You asked for someone to comment on what you were told regarding Mormons and geneology. I'd like to do that, if I may...

    I'm not surprised you were confused by what you were told. Most of it is totally wrong. The rest is mostly wrong. The woman you described sounds seriously mental. I hope she gets help FAST. Of course, I can only speak for LDS people and doctrines. The RLDS are a whole other ball game and I never attempt to speak for them, so if she was RLDS, I really don't know what to tell you. But as far as Mormons (LDS) go, here is the straight stuff...

    Okay, first of all, there is NO requirement to do ANY geneology prior to baptism. There is no requirement to do ANY geneology AFTER baptism either. It is a personal thing. Some do, some don't. Some do none, some a little, some devote their lives to it and become obsessed with it. Whatever. A personal choice. Nobody spends much time judging anybody else on the basis of their geneology skills. Then again, we aren't into judging others based on much of anything.

    Second, we are under no obligation to "make atonement" for the wrongs of our ancestors. That's their problem. They'll have to deal with it. We can only deal with our own lives and our own mistakes. Thank goodness for that. We each have enough on our plates without taking on the sins of others.

    Third, by doing geneology, we can do temple work for our ancestors, and for others not of our own lineage, but in no way does this absolve them of anything. It only gives them the opportunity to accept or reject teachings of Jesus Christ that they didn't have the opportunity to accept or reject in this life. So it's all up to them anyway. God will force no one to heaven.

    Does that help?

    Susan

  • SusanHere
    SusanHere

    Hi, Utopian Reformist,

    Although I seldom respond to postings such as yours, which seem to be only intended to ridicule rather than an attempt at intelligent dialogue, I will make an exception. Probably a mistake, but here goes...

    No, the religionists are not the center of all cleanliness. DUH. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.) But as GoldDustWoman (I think it was her) pointed out, the Mormons are often used as a control group because of their exceptionally healthy lifestyle. This isn't a matter of washing hands after using the bathroom, though we and most other civilized people do that, but because of our abstinance from unhealthy substances such as coffee, tea, (caffiene in general), tobacco products, and all alcohol. Because that is a church-wide, world-wide belief of ours, Mormons make a natural control group for those researching the effects of a healthy lifestyle. If this bothers you, or is humorous to you, that's your problem.

    Susan

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