STOP being naive - the time has come to use your PRIMAL SENSES

by Dogpatch 68 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Hi Villalobo,

    Dogpatch, I was quoting thetrueone on the above statement. My post was a response to his.

    I started that response to thetrueone by saying "Not really. Common sense is not enough by itself."

    I agree. It's east to fool the primal senses, just like you can fool an animal. But they are usually enough to tell the whole story in most instances in our lives. You just have to ask if you are really WANTING to believe this, and be careful of ignoring more obvious arguments and desires. Like I have said before, people don't join cults because of their doctrines; they can stay home and believe them. They do not leave because of doctrine either; but of what the doctrine does to them inside their primal being. If not you look further into the matter. Magicians actually use your 5 senses to confuse you by sleight of hand, visual distraction, etc. It's kind of like using profiling; you use the more important and obvious answers first. (Occam's Razor)

    If that doesn't fit, you keep examining possible matrices for an explanation, considering all the known facts.

    Randy

  • reslight2
    reslight2

    Charles Taze Russell. And no doubt he borrowed that from some dissenting early Adventist who tried to reason his way out of why Jesus DIDN'T RETURN in 1844 or 1874. So millions of people spend decades arguing over a stupid idea that no one in the history of Christianity had bothered themselves with for 2000 years. Why? Because Jesus made it pretty plain how he would come back.

    Jesus made it plain that he would not come back as a human being, having a body of flesh, which, if one applies the scripture, would mean that he would come back as a being a litlle lower than the angels. -- Hebrews 2:9.

    It was in 1876 that Russell accepted Barbour's conclusion that Christ had already returned in 1874 (two years earlier). However, Russell had already concluded from his own study of the Bible that Jesus would not return as a human being, in the flesh, since he found out from the scriptures that Jesus had offered his humanity, his flesh, his body, in sacrifice to God. Aside from the fact that if Christ is still flesh that he is still a little lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:9), if he is still flesh, then we have no sacrifice for sin, we have no redemption, and and no price has been given to pay the wages of sin, etc.

    The World Will See Me No More — John 14:19
    http://prophecy.reslight.net/archives/12.html

    primal:

    1. first; original; primeval: primal eras before the appearance of life on earth . 2. of first importance; fundamental: the primal resources of a nation.

    sense:

    1. any of the faculties, as sight, hearing, smell, taste, or touch, by which humans and animals perceive stimuli originating from outside or inside the body. 2. these faculties collectively. 3. their operation or function; sensation . 4. a feeling or perception produced through the organs of touch, taste, etc., or resulting from a particular condition of some part of the body: to have a sense of cold. 5. a faculty or function of the mind analogous to sensation : the moral sense. 6. any special capacity for perception, estimation, appreciation, etc.: a sense of humor. 7. Usually, senses. clear and sound mental faculties; sanity: Have you taken leave of your senses? 8. a more or less vague perception or impression: a sense of security. 9. a mental discernment, realization, or recognition; acuteness: a just sense of the worth of a thing. 10. the recognition of something as incumbent or fitting: a sense of duty. 11. sound practical intelligence: He has no sense. 12. something that is sensible or reasonable: to talk sense. 13. the meaning or gist of something: You missed the sense of his statement. 14. the value or worth of something; merit: There's no sense in worrying about the past. 15. the meaning of a word or phrase in a specific context, especially as isolated in a dictionary or glossary; the semantic element in a word or group of words. 16. an opinion or judgment formed or held, especially by an assemblage or body of persons: the sense of a meeting. Defintions from dictionary.com.

    Our primal senses as originally given to us through Adam have been corrupted due to sin. Adam was created with a crown of sinless glory that fully reflected the righteousness of God. Man was given dominion over all the earth, but lost that dominion due to sin, so that, we now do not see all things subjected to man. -- Genesis 1:26,28: Psalm 8:4-8; Romans 3:23; 5:12-19; Hebrews 2:7,8.

    The senses the Christian is called upon to use is that which has been revealed through God's holy spirit in the Bible. Thus to the new creation, the primal, that which is of greatest importance, is what God has revealed in the Bible. To deny the purpose for which Jesus came in the flesh, that is, to give that flesh as for the life of the world, would be to deny the very basis of the redemption. Every thing in the New Testament, once properly understood, agrees with this. If we think we have found something that disgrees with this, then we have fully appreciated what was written; if this is so, usually our minds can only see the scripture through the blinding tint of man's tradition, and in doing so, we fail to get the full picture.

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Reslight:

    My primal senses tell me that you are a Bible Student and still believe in Russell, despite all the god talk.

    Was I right?

    Randy

  • Violia
    Violia

    Dog patch

    I had questions and doubts for many years but the piece de resistance was the change in the baptismal vows.
    That told me everything I needed to know.. We were being told not to read the older publications as they would confuse us and the apostates were using them against us. I said that this was our history, and it was crazy to try and deny it.

    A lot of social class divisions became the norm as the jws tried to reinvent themselves as a more white, middle class religion. I saw the elders only cared about protecting their positions and generally associated within their own group. I realized it was a male organization , but due to poor self esteem, they had to kick me to the curb( almost literally) before I figured it out.

    I read my own Bible. I just used the NWT. I never saw any apostate literature, etc. I never spoke to one. I just read my own Bible without the aide of the wts publications. I cultivated doubts and nourished them--but I did it with my Bible only. Never even saw apostate material until I found this and other xjws boards. It was nice to hear intelligent discussion of the Bible without the WT or other books.

    Thanks for dedicating your life to help expose these are other frauds.
    V

    thanks Randy, your site has been big help.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Jehovah's Witnesses are a board game.

    The box is colorful and exciting, the pieces quirky and participants enthralled with activities!

    With huge smiles you are warmly invited to play and WIN!

    you find yourself on THEIR squares with THEIR rules and rolling THEIR dice.

    The "object of the game" is to keep you playing by their rules and going round and round and round recruiting more players.

    As old players die, get kicked out or leave by fading, new ones replace them with fresh hopes of 'winning'.

    Every other game is decried as a waste of time and any other game's players are automatically the "enemy".

    A Dungeons and Dragons style participation in role-playing and quests take over your imagination AND empty your life of any practical concern.

    One day you wake up and find yourself old, poor, discarded and without value. Where did the time go? Where is your life?

    The only way to win is to NOT play.

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    As old players die, get kicked out or leave by fading, new ones replace them with fresh hopes of 'winning'.

    Does this mean Charley Sheen is a Jehovah Witness ?

  • reslight2
    reslight2

    Reslight:

    My primal senses tell me that you are a Bible Student and still believe in Russell, despite all the god talk.

    Was I right?

    Randy

    Randy: I am a Bible Student, and I believe that Russell was a Christian who endeavored to present Bible truths concerning God and Jesus, and the ransom sacrifice of Jesus, if that is what you mean by "believe in Russell".

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Interesting thread. I myself experienced those "primal senses" when I was younger. I was an avid reader of the literature, and I used to have little instinctive thoughts, like, "Why are they even asking a question like 'Did Man Evolve?' We know they're not going present any proof to SUPPORT that idea anyway, this is the Awake!" Or "It sounds like they're guessing. It sounds like a man trying to explain why his hand is in the cookie jar." Or "Gee, the early history of the organization sounds more like a business than like a Christian congregation."

    I think the Proclaimers book had some pretty shocking things, just that they were presented in a positive light. I was disappointed that so little time was given to the 1975 issue. It was like, one quote from Franz' speech--which as I learned from reading an older WT magazine, was doctored so as to present a different meaning than before--and an offhand remark that apostates left. "Well, what happened to them? They didn't just melt away." I used to think to a certain point and I just knew there was this huge empty space, that if I followed the logic to its conclusion, my faith in the religion would be torn to shreds. It was a frightening thought.

    It was when I was emotionally ready to tap into my instincts that it all disappeared for me. It was then that the thought popped into my head, well, they're warning us to stay away from 'apostates'; what are they so afraid of? What do they think we'll find out? I knew before I started My research only confirmed what my instincts already knew. It was just heartbreaking to see just how far gone it all was from reality. The folks in charge were so desperate to maintain an illusion that they would literally resort to anything.

    As a born-in, it's been so hard to get out of it and not be worried that another person or group will fool you in the exact same way. I think Steve Hassan's books were very helpful for me. From the spiritual perspective, reading about spiritual abuse was equally helpful. There's a great book out there on that subject. I'm sure there's more than one, but I have had a lot of reading to catch up on...

    I think for many people it feels safer to go along with the magic trick. The world makes sense when you believe it. You start to believe that without this belief system, life has no meaning. I experienced the opposite--I felt that the life offered by the JWs had no meaning. Nothing but endless servitude and battling against yourself, to what end? To please a God who says 'serve me or die', in the end? Why? What makes it worthwhile? Both God and the Devil are threatening to kill me if I don't obey. I felt being trapped in between two gods was a meaningless life. I decided I no longer wanted to fight in their war.

    Knowing that the real war is for truth and freedom, I think there's a lot more hope in that. In the end, it's my hope that we're able to actually do what JWs intend to do (and perhaps in some cases actually succeed, although through means that are in the end unethical)--save lives by spreading knowledge. Still...it's hard to have hope when so many are trapped in an illusion. You just want to save them all.

    Sorry, must be feelin' a little depressed today. The important thing is, at least we're here, and as long as we're here, fighting for truth, reality, logic, reason, etc., there's always hope.

    --sd-7

  • Refriedtruth
    Refriedtruth

    Good thread the Watchtower is Scientology or Enron,a cross between the moonies and the mafia

  • alias
    alias

    Born-ins are a different subject and requires different tools, yes. Perhaps we will discuss that soon.

    Randy

    Please, please, please do. (3x's for emphasis)

    alias

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