Ok , this Trinity Doctrine is messing me up

by KristiKay 64 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ProdigalSon

  tec, how exactly can the Bible be used to "prove" anything? This debate has been going on for 2,000 years. The Bible can go either way. Why? Because it is the ideas of men who were at best, guessing about the nature of "God". It just AMAZES me that this BOOK can be viewed as such an AUTHORITY (Golden Calf, actually), that it can actually PROVE something to be an unassailable FACT!!

  Kristi, run from these people as fast as you can.... it is a very dangerous mind control cult. But if you've spent more than 5 minutes on this forum, you already know that.

  If the Trinity confuses you, think of it this way. If you were a lightbulb, you would have a plug. That plug would have three prongs. When they are ALL plugged in, you light up. That's basically how the Trinity works. It's just metaphysical science that we don't need to understand. The problem here is, you have been indoctrinated, as we ALL were, with erroneous information. There is no God up in the sky who is going to be "offended" by the Trinity Doctrine. Do you think for one second your father here on earth would even be angry with you, let alone destroy you for not understanding something that the Catholic Church, who basically made it up, admits is "incomprehensible to human intelligence"?

  The True God is Love, it is inside of you and its both Mommy and Daddy. The big bad Pharisee God Jehovah of the Watchtower has been officially yanked off the throne.
• 

  brotherdan

  KristiKay: God is someone that wants you to know Him and understand Him. Don't let them twist you into a pretzel.

  She feels that if I can't rationaly explain my belief in the trinity, then that eliminates every other religion, so we can go from there.

  I used to do the SAME thing when I was a JW. But here is the deal. A TRUE Bible study takes place between you and the Holy Spirit. A WT publication does not take the place of the Holy Spirit as a teacher. That is what they are trying to do.

  The Trinity is not something to focus on. I personally believe that the Bible teaches it. But what is important? Jesus says that you must come to HIM for salvation. That is what is important. Pray to Jesus. Talk to Him. Tell Him (or His Father) all about your frustrations. He will help you! He will take your hand and guide you where to go.

  If you want to learn about the basics of Christianity, don't look to Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't have it. Please believe me. I spent 29 years believing everything that they say. But now I am 30 and I can see that they have been SO wrong.

  I have found some very usefull resources. One of my favorite Bible teachers is John Macarthur. He is not haughty and he does not speak highly of himself. Go to gty.org for some of his sermons. If you want to learn about the fundamentals of being a Christian, here is a GREAT link to some talks that he gives. http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermon+Series/302_Fundamentals-of-the-Faith . Follow with your bible and either take it or leave it. But these sermons have been VERY valuable to me.

  I hope you find Jesus and see that what these people are teaching is a sad distortion of the facts. I pray that you may learn the truth about Jesus and one day be able to teach this woman that "teaches" you about the bible the truth about Christ!
• 

  tec

  tec, how exactly can the Bible be used to "prove" anything?

  Verses within it can be used to prove that it says one thing or another. That does not prove that this 'one thing or another' is true or not. Only that it is (or is not) true from a biblical perspective - which is what I had tried to do with the trinity doctrine.

  Do you understand what I'm saying?

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  Jesus says that you must come to HIM for salvation. That is what is important.
• 

  brotherdan

  Thanks Tammy. The more I grow, the more I see that I shoudn't harp on doctrine. Getting people to Jesus is the most important thing. Then THEY can decide for themselves. They can either submit to the teaching of the Spirit or not. And what I think about it...well it means nothing. Absolutely nothing...
• 

  brotherdan
• 

  Black Sheep

  She feels that if I can't rationaly explain my belief in the trinity, then that eliminates every other religion

  What she 'feels' is irrelevant.

  Their primary doctrine is that the Watchtower was selected by Jesus, in 1919, to be God's sole channel of communication in our day.

  As long as she believes that, every bit of evidence you provide for anything, doesn't count in her mind, so don't waste your time presenting it.

  If it is not true, that doctrine eliminates her religion.

  Ask her to prove it.

  Don't accept any change of subject.

  Make her provide documentation for every piece of evidence she presents.

  Only ask questions.

  Don't tell her anything, she is not really listening except for an opportunity to change the subject to something she is more comfortable with.

  Good luck

  Chris
• 

  Chalam

  Welcome KristiKay!

  this, and after she left I read more about how the whole doctrine of the Trinity was developed, and now I'm questioning the whole thing myself..

  1 Corinthians 10:12 (English Standard Version)

  12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

  2 Peter 3:16-18 (English Standard Version)

  16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

  Take care of your footing. As brotherdan says, stand on the Rock, there is no other.

  Isaiah 44:8 (New International Version, ©2010)

  8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
  Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
  You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
  No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

  1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (New International Version, ©2010)

  Warnings From Israel’s History

  1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

  And there you have it, Jesus is Rock, the spiritual drink of the Holy Spirit.

  More good resources in these threads.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/204871/1/What-is-the-Trinity

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/188641/1/The-Trinity-the-biblical-case-clear-and-simple

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  DagothUr

  All religions are false. Don't forget to flush the toilet.
• 

  Black Sheep

  If you know John 20:28 and its surrounding text well enough, you should be able to use your JW's knowledge of the beliefs of Thomas and the era to get them to admit that Jesus is Jehovah or pop a foofoo valve trying to avoid saying it.

  Their automated response to any scripture they don't like is to divert your attention to another one that they feel contradicts your one. They are used to getting away with it, so throw them off guard by not getting suckered into the diversion.

  You have to maintain control of the topic and tell them you will discuss their scripture AFTER you have finished discussing John 20:28 with them.

  If their scripture truly does prove that Jesus is not Jehovah and John 20:28 proves that he is, then there is contradiction in the Bible.

  Trick#2 for a JW is to give their prey a Modalist doctrine to defend. If their prey takes the bait, they try to defend a doctrine that very few Xtian churches teach. My mother was born CofE, converted to JW 70 years ago, and still doesn't know who God is according to the church she apostasized from. Most JWs only understand the Trinity from the Modalist point of view, so if you want to give them a fright, understand what the doctrine of the Trinity really is, and make them debate that.

  Trinitarians and JWs can't both be right, but they can both be wrong.

  Cheers

  Chris