Why do you believe the bible? or not?

by AiAi 86 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  thetrueone

  The bible is just a historical reference of human ignorance entwined with actual events by an

  ancient civilization. Which is quite appropriate and fitting for that historical era.

  Much of the words of the bible were embellished stories by seers who were intending to

  bring assertive power and relevance to their god of choice YHWH.

  Gods as they were perceived by ancient civilizations were an occurring necessity to explain the

  unknown aspects of the world they lived in, the same world which we live in today.

  The proof of the bible as being mostly fictitious story telling is the acquired knowledge of the world we live

  in since those times.

  So descriptively you could say the bible is a historical reference of past human ignorance.
• 

  Heaven

  Anyone have any other cool questions related to the global flood of the Bible that cannot be answered except to say that the flood never happened?

  well here are three:

  bohm, those are excellent! Thank you.

  So much of what we now know fascinates me and at the same time, negates that which is written in the Bible.

  The polar ice and the clonal trees listed in item #2 are amazing. I learn so much from you guys.

  edited to add:

  So descriptively you could say the bible is a historical reference of past human ignorance.

  thetrueone ... well said. This is an excellent statement.

  A colleague of mine who is Muslim said that all Holy Books need to be interpretted for the times we live in. And that there will be parts that no longer apply. We didn't have time to get into a discussion about the parts that can be/are proven false but if we did, I'm sure he'd say they should be discarded.
• 

  PSacramento

  You do realise that most scholars do NOT view the flood tale as global flood but a great LOCAL flood and that there IS evidence of that.

  In regards to the description of the flood, well, unless you take the flood account LITERALLY, then it is just typical ancient writings, full of hyperbole and colorful descriptive language, which is what we would expect from ancient writers.
• 

  Terry

  I'm going to start another thread (to avoid hijacking this one) and get a hand count of who believes what about the Bible.
• 

  bohm

  Heaven -- your more than welcome! I cant actually remember the last time anyone here tried to defend a global flood at any details.

  like PS says, there are good reasons to believe the flood of noah is build on some element of truth (like the other flood-stories, some which most likely predates the supposed biblical flood).

  UPDATED: added some weasel-words since im not really that certain how the gilgamesh epic and the bible relate.
• 

  Heaven

  You do realise that most scholars do NOT view the flood tale as global flood but a great LOCAL flood and that there IS evidence of that.

  Yes. Good one, PSac. You've just hit on yet another couple of problems with the Bible.

  1) Our perspectives have changed since ancient times and we are more knowledgable which means, we may not be understanding the ancient accounts as they truly happened because our frame of reference is completely different.

  2) How many people consult a scholar when reading the Bible? Or even after?

  If it is true that the flood was local, then the Bible needs to be altered to state this. Also, if true, maybe we should all just put the book down and walk away from it because if this story is messed up, there's gotta be others that are.

  I say this... don't use words such as "all life", "every creature", and "everything on Earth" if you only mean a portion or certain region of the Earth and only the life in said region. Be specific. I mean, this is God telling us this stuff, right?

  Also, since there are accounts within the Bible that DO talk certain cities or regions, I have issue with the Genesis account not stating such if what the scholars say is true.
• 

  ziddina

  Whoops!!! AiAi, I left the board for a bit = here's an older thread that discusses the possibility that the 'god' of the Israelites was based - in part - on their superstitious reaction to volcanic eruptions in the area...

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/185420/1/Yahweh-The-Volcano-God

  I don't remember whether the following is discussed on the thread, so I'll mention it here...

  Check out the geologic origins of the "Golan Heights" - in the western area of modern-day Israel and eastern area of Jordan.

  As you check out the geologic origins of the Golan Heights, you will probably come across references to "Holocene" volcanic eruptions. "Holocene" is a term which describes the most recent geologic period - covering the last 10,000 years or so...

  So, if the Israelites - or their pre-tribal ancestors - observed a volcanic eruption, that dramatic event would have made a deep impression on the Israelites - to the extent that it influenced their tribal mythology...

  Add to that, the fact that the Israelites tended towards BURNED offerings to "Yahweh", indicates that the concept of "fire" and burning the offerings to ash and smoke, were extremely significant to them... The question is, why???

  Interestingly, moving into the NEW testament, there is some evidence that the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius that destroyed Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79 CE - and I apologize to whomever it was that I mis-stated that the eruption took place in 69 CE - that date was originally thought to be the date when "John" wrote or finished the book of Revelation...

  In fact, subsequent evidence prompts most biblical scholars nowadays to have determined a much later date for the book of Revelation - around 90 CE...

  Which would have placed the bizarre, destructive and fire-based imagery of Revelation around 10 - 11 years AFTER Vesuvius' dramatic and highly destructive eruption...

  I need to do further reading on the subject. I've also read that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE inspired some of the imagery in the book of Revelation, too... When I have time (ha, ha ha....) I need to go back and read accounts of the destruction of Jerusalem, Pliny the Younger's accounts of the eruption of Vesuvius, and Revelation, again...

  I will say this about Revelation, however... I suspect that the roiling clouds of a volcanic eruption would serve as better inspiration for much of the fiery imagery of Revelation...

  Whenever one sees references in the bible to images like "His eye like a fiery flame, his feet like fine bronze fired in a furnace..." (Revelation 1: 14-15), "From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings, and thunder..." (Revelation 4: 5). Of particular note is Revelation 6:12: "Then I saw HIm open the sixth seal. A violent earthquake occurred; the sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair; th entire moon became like blood..."

  That is DEFINITELY volcanic imagery - in fact, Pompeii had a SEVERE earthquake some years before the eruption of Vesuvius; noted throughout the region - and the description of the sun and moon turning "black" or like "blood" is VERY TYPICAL of the effects of viewing the sun and moon thru a cloud of volcanic ash...

  Whenever I see references within the bible to an "act of god" appearing similar or compared to "furnaces", to "smoke ascending as from a furnace", etc, etc. - I suspect one is looking at scripture inspired by vulcanism, not holy spirit...

  And of course, to be continued...

  Zid
• 

  AiAi

  Zid, very interesting i must say. I have never even heard of this theory before but it really makes me want to find out more. If its not true its still seems interesting like I said and a lot of theological reasonings has about the same amount of evidence at best lol.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  You do realise that most scholars do NOT view the flood tale as global flood but a great LOCAL flood and that there IS evidence of that.

  Yes. I have to chime in on that one, too. There is no scripture that warns or explains how the Bible might exaggerate to make such points. For all these generations, Genesis was literal. Now that it can be proven to be not literal, oh well.... ....it was representative of the great local flood with a mythology built in for some kind of morality lessons.

  I can't wait for more Bible to be dismissed then. One day when they figure out that the Jesus stories are just myths, they can say how they were "teaching fictions" instead of lies.
• 

  ziddina

  Well, AiAi, look further into it...

  I started out by reading about volcanoes. Devoured everything on the subject from the tender age of 7 - 8 on up.

  After reading so many scientific accounts - and survivors' accounts - of volcanic eruptions, it was pretty obvious to me, what the origins of some of the "manifestations" of "god" within the bible, really were.

  I don't know if you'll get that viewpoint, if you begin to read some books about volcanoes. I'd read a LOT of books on the subject, by the time I began to recognize the volcanic nature of several accounts in the bible...

  I wish you well in your research. Volcanoes are a FASCINATING subject, so I think you'll be well-entertained, at any rate...

  Zid