tammy, it is impossible to escape that faith is giving some conclusion a truth-value the evidence does not warrent. that is not a virtue, it is at best interlectual dishonesty! At worst, it is the source of so many crimes committed by people with far more faith than any of us will ever have.
Why do you believe the bible? or not?
by AiAi 86 Replies latest watchtower bible
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cyberjesus
aiai: "Jesus interrupted" by B Ehrman its a must read for you. then keep going.
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tec
Just a quick point; you imply that some books are inspired when not one book has been proven to be inspired. So your sentence should have read more along the lines of "I believe some of the books are inspired and some are not", correct?
Well, Sab, the question was... why do you believe... ;)
But to clarify, yes... I believe some of the books are inspired and some are not. (which is not to say that my belief is blind or without reason)
Tammy
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tec
Bohm - I don't understand what you're trying to say? Please be more simple or provide an example. Thanks.
Tammy
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bohm
tec: Lets take the existence of the christian God. I almost never hear: "Trust your reasoning power and the evidence: The God of the bible exist!". What i hear is that i should have faith in God, that believing requires faith -- so what is faith then, if not something else than reason?
I have come to the conclusion that faith is just a nice way to say: "i accept this without strong evidence. I will treat this as being more true than what is really warrented".Thats what i object to. i dont think thats a good idea, especially not with something like religion, where experience tell me there are some really crazy people who will exploit the vacuum of reason to install really dangerous ideas, like flying planes into buildings.
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tec
I think there is evidence. I just don't think what I accept as evidence is the same as what you might accept as evidence. I think faith is belief and trust without proof - but not without evidence, or even without reasoning.
Perhaps what you are speaking about is blind faith, which would not question or test anything against love, or mercy, or reason? Blind faith can be dangerous, yes.
Tammy
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bohm
tec -- if one has the abilty to test ones actions and ideas against love, mercy or reason, i see no use for god in terms of morals.
proof is never found in the natural world, and if one has evidence and reasoning, what "extra" does faith offer? said in another way, can one accept the conclusion God exist only based on evidence and reasoning?
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tec
can one accept the conclusion God exist only based on evidence and reasoning?
Of course. Why not? It would depend on the person. I do think that you have to be 'open' to that, of course.
Now believing something exists (creator) does not mean that you believe in a specific version of that creator, and even then, it does not mean that you believe in -as in trust/have faith in Him.
Faith allows you to be assured that what you believe is true. Faith is trusting in that One. The reward or benefit (at least in my experience) is hope, assurance, greater and growing faith, understanding, compassion and love - but most importantly knowing someone (Christ) whom you love.
Tammy
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bohm
"Faith allows you to be assured that what you believe is true." -- so faith is a way to increase the trustworthiness of a given idea above what evidence and reason alone would warrent?
i am certain faith can be a force of good, but faith in itself is not a virtue -- love, kindness and forgiveness are.
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GLTirebiter
can one accept the conclusion God exist only based on evidence and reasoning?
Yes. "Natural Law" is the evidence--not a mathematical proof, but evidence none the less. C. S. Lewis expressed this far more eloquently than I possibly could. The introduction ends at 6:30.