Congresswoman Shot in Tucson (page 27)

villabolo

thetrueone:

"The people that did with this guy just got lucky."

No. No luck is needed. As Beks previously brought up, he was surrounded by people. That means people behind him as well as in front.

Furthermore, and of much greater importance, you don't have to wait for an attacker to reload in order to have a chance at disrupting his shooting. You can jam such a gun by grabbing the slide from the top and racking it. If you fumble enough with the lower portion of the handle, where the magazine release is located, you even have a chance to drop the magazine.

Villabolo

Farkel

simon,

:Your constitution is pretty simple and well thought out but c'mon, do you really think they intended to have people running round with guns in everyday life?

Well, as a matter-of-fact yes.

I'm surprised that you are not aware or have forgotten how much the British Common Law affected our Founder's ideas about bearing arms. In Britain, the most conspicuous sign of a freeman (outside of being able to own land) was the right to own and bear arms. That right was, in fact, a symbol of freedom, and therefore of status. Slaves could not legally own guns, only free men.

It was the people of your country (and my forebears country, too. I am first and foremost a Brit by ancestry. My ancestors left a few generations back to escape religious persecution because they belonged to a cult!) who inspired our Founding Fathers to pen the second amendment to the United States Constitution.

I'm not trying to now argue anything beyond WHY the second amendment was not the 8th or 10th amendment but the SECOND Amendment, just under freedom of speech, religion and the right of peaceable assembly and the right of the people to petition the government for redress.

So, yes. People "running around with guns" was exactly what they intended. Not necessarily that they should run around using them for anything which pissed them off, but so they could defend themselves from people who ran around with them to do bad things to other people.

Per capita crimes of ALL sorts was very low in those days (compared with today), in the days before the governments started disarming law-abiding citizens.

I don't even own a gun and have never owned a gun in my adult life. I still want the right to own and bear a gun if and when I decide I want or need to do so. I grew up on guns, though and I respect them and know how to use them.

Farkel

BizzyBee

I'm surprised that you are not aware or have forgotten how much the British Common Law affected our Founder's ideas about bearing arms. In Britain, the most conspicuous sign of a freeman (outside of being able to own land) was the right to own and bear arms. That right was, in fact, a symbol of freedom, and therefore of status.

And I am surprised that you think the FF were thinking that their reality would translate to our reality over 200 years later. People running around with guns in a densely populated urban area is not what they envisioned. Which is one good reason they provided for amendments.

lisaBObeesa

"I'll say this, if your first instinct after hearing about a tragedy is to scrub yr websites, you have a problem as a political movement." - digby56

thetrueone

The Constitution was written for its time and era as they were trying to form the country.

That doesn't mean that these laws couldn't be expanded upon and other laws established as the necessity became apparent.

Any society that is advancing and changing needs to change and create new laws as necessity dictates.

You can best assume that the FF ( writers of the Constitution ) would not agree with this basic principle.

thetrueone

You can best assume that the FF ( writers of the Constitution ) would agree with this basic principle.

Sorry didn't proof read my post

NeckBeard

Father of the slain girl spoke on the Today Show yesterday.

He has something to say to all of those that want to make our society less free (at 9:35):

THE ATTACK IS A PRICE OF A FREE SOCIETY.

I PREFER THIS TO THE ALTERNATIVE.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40998602#40998602

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.Benjamin Franklin

Your constitution is pretty simple and well thought out but c'mon, do you really think they intended to have people running round with guns in everyday life?

Yes they did.

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. – James Madison

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. – Alexander Hamilton

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. - Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - Patrick Henry

..arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them. -- Thomas Paine

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson

We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46

- James Madison

"The great object is, that every man be armed."

- Patrick Henry

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peacable citizens, from keeping their own arms;

Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788

GEORGE WASHINGTON (First President)

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." (Address to 1st session of Congress)

"The few cases wherein these things (proposed Bill of Rights) may do evil, cannot be weighed against the multitude where the want of them will do evil...I hope therefore a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the federal government..." (Jefferson letter to Madison 31 July 1788, The Papers of James Madison, Hobson & Rutland, p.11:212)

thetrueone

Yes absolutely right..........200 hundred years ago

Everyone should pack a gun and carry it with them at all times, just like in the 1700's

They should sell guns at every 7-11 and corner store.

The more guns in society the more peaceful the society will become.

Thats just good logic and reasoning.

BurnTheShips

With all this Palin hate mongering on the Left, lets hope nothing bad happens to her or her family.

BTS

NeckBeard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxgJKNpjSNI

Congresswoman Shot in Tucson

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