Understanding Christ's Sacrifice (page 6)

tec

Designs - You said the disciples of Christ killed because of what he said, and taught, and because of what the NT said and taught. You cannot make that statement without ignoring all the things Christ actually DID say and DID teach. The exact opposite of what was done in his name, if those 'followers' were killing and persecuting. You just don't want to address that, I think?

You're right that I was never a witness. Almost... but I changed my mind two weeks after I decided I wanted to join. You said:

a bad Wintess is really not a true Jehovah's Witness, doesn't fly does it.

Doesn't that depend? Are they following the WTS teaching (word and example), or not? Someone believing in and following the directives of the WTS... they are a witness. Someone not believing in and not following what the WTS says (but are in for some other reason - good or bad)... a witness in name only, which means absolutely nothing. And if you do something that the WTS speaks against (by word and example), then are you following them or someone else?

Tammy

tec

I think it can be debated that power is what he truly wanted. The evidence is what he asks in return for his sacrifice: eternal servitude.

It can be debated, yes. But I shared what I learned through my experience, and how that helped me to understand Christ. And the only eternal servitude that Christ asks for is that we serve one another in love. As pertaining to Him, that servitude to one another allows us to be brothers to Him, and sons of God with Him.

Tammy

tec

Yes I read it, but no, sorry, I just don't get it.

I understand. I didn't 'get it' either, until I experienced just a touch of it for myself.

Tammy

myelaine

dear Tammy...

"Out of love for us, Christ wanted to carry our sins on him... so he could make amends for us, because we are not in a place to understand or make amends for ourselves. We don't know what it is to love - completely, unselfishly, and everyone. We don't know what it is to show mercy to all. We don't understand because we rarely know who to turn to, or who to listen to in order to learn these things to begin with.

So Christ chose to carry our sins and he made amends for us by:

a) obeying his Father, showing faith and trust in His Father's will (which is where the ransom/adam/Christ comes into things... but there is so much MORE).

And this is the more, in my humble opinion:

b) Christ demonstrated what His Father wants from us - He forgave those who wronged Him, tortured Him, even killed him... and He asked His Father to forgive them as well.

He made amends for us by showing the mercy and the love that we are unable to show. That was fulfillment of the law. "...

scripture says that Jesus was set forth as propitiation for our sins not our inability to show love and mercy. (romans 3:24-25)

we are to have faith in Him in the same way that the israelites were to have faith in the previous "arrangement"...one goat had the sins of the people put on it and it was led out into the wilderness far away so that those sins would NEVER return to the people, and one goat with no blemishes would be sacrificed and it would make for a sweet smelling sacrifice to God. (sins) + the blood of a lamb placed on the doorpost and lintel of your door would make death "pass over " your house. (redemption)...for the Lord to become these sacrifices for us is the love of God through and in Jesus and because a man would take our place for judgement before His Father, there is the "legal" fulfillment of the law. Jesus had mercy on humanity who are unable to be "without blemish" according to the law because He loved us...His children: hebrews 2:13-18, john 1:12, isaiah 8:16-18.

love michelle

myelaine

dear designs...

is isaiah 9:6 a 'message' of hope, peace and reconciliation in this life among all peoples? if so, how is it metaphor for something?...did God just suggest an extremely specific good idea without actually giving the jewish people the means?...or...does it speak of an actual person setting up a government of peace and reconcilliation?...who?...between whom?...why?...where?

love michelle

cameo-d

Joey Jo-Jo: "The reason why Jesus got himself in trouble does not make any sense,"

He exposed the corruption going on in the synagogue. What's so hard to understand about that? He turned over the merchants at the door. He tried to show people it was just a money making, ear-tickling operation. Had nothing to do with "exchange rates". But it had everything to do with the travesty of the idea of "blood sacrifice." Our Creator never demanded such things. This is totally made up by man.

cameo-d

Designs: "Jesus tells his own people that he will send them to burn in Hell for all Eternity, the most violent form of torture the human mind could possibly come up with."

Can you show me that verse in the red letter edition? I think what you have just said is your own conclusion of things based on some kind of misguidance. I don't think Jesus said such a thing. Prove it, please.

cameo-d

Designs: " Followup in Revelation where the vast majority of human civilization is slaughtered by Jesus and his Army and sent to the Lake of Fire. This is not a nice guy."

For a religion that does not believe in trinity, the WT certainly seems to believe in a dual deity of sorts. I have noticed they often interchange the names of Jehovah and Jesus. One minute it is Jah's army, the next sentence it's Jesus and his army referring to the same instance.

Since you are reading Revelation, please note that in every instance referring to Jesus, he is called "the son of man". Never is he called the son of god. This was a label put on him by others. He never referred to himself in any such aggrandizing manner. Jesus was NOT the son of god---some supernatural being. He was just a very gifted, compassionate human being who saw through the corruption taking place. Jesus had strength of character and rather than challenging TPTB, he instead, tried to teach the spiritually enslaved masses a better way of life and how to behave toward one another---things that the church should have been teaching them but were not. Through his work and his words he tried to make people see what was right so that they could come to their own conclusions in recognizing that the rituals and dogma being taught for spirituality was totally wrong and totally fictious.

cameo-d

tec: "Designs - You said the disciples of Christ killed because of what he said, and taught,"

Tec, you seem to be upholding that statement. Which of the disciples killed others? What is the difference between a disciple and an apostle?

The Finger

Tammy,

i have enjoyed reading this

Understanding Christ's Sacrifice

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