Understanding Christ's Sacrifice

by tec 101 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  tec

  I haven't always understood how Christ could have carried our sins for us, and had them forgiven. I've sort of understood because that's what people say he did, but the ransom (in a legalistic adam/jesus way) never held weight for me. But something recently happened that allowed me to understand. Terry said something on another thread also, about God being wrong/unjust to punish his Son for our sins, and I'll get to that as well.

  But the sacrifice first.

  Recently, someone I cared for (considered a brother) wronged someone else. No one knew all the details. I wanted to make amends for the person who committed the wrong, understanding that that person was not in a place to understand or make amends themselves, regardless of the reason. I have never wanted to do that for someone else before, but on this occasion I did. I wanted to contact the person who was wronged, make amends, and ask that the 'sin' be put on me, so that the one I cared for could be forgiven and go in peace. Now another person beat me to it in a sense... but the understanding that I gained from this feeling remained.

  Out of love for us, Christ wanted to carry our sins on him... so he could make amends for us, because we are not in a place to understand or make amends for ourselves. We don't know what it is to love - completely, unselfishly, and everyone. We don't know what it is to show mercy to all. We don't understand because we rarely know who to turn to, or who to listen to in order to learn these things to begin with.

  So Christ chose to carry our sins and he made amends for us by:

  a) obeying his Father, showing faith and trust in His Father's will (which is where the ransom/adam/Christ comes into things... but there is so much MORE).

  And this is the more, in my humble opinion:

  b) Christ demonstrated what His Father wants from us - He forgave those who wronged Him, tortured Him, even killed him... and He asked His Father to forgive them as well.

  He made amends for us by showing the mercy and the love that we are unable to show. That was fulfillment of the law.

  Terry - God did not punish Christ for our sins. Christ chose to carry our sins, out of love. We tortured and killed him... and instead of doing what we do - blame, fight, curse, call down anger upon them - He gave what we should be giving: forgiveness and mercy... even asking His father to show them the same things.

  I know many people understand Christ's sacrifice already. But I didn't. Not fully. I just wanted to share my new understanding with all of you.

  Love and peace,

  Tammy
• 

  Curtains

  thank you Tammy for your thoughts. I have also had such instants in my own journey out and I love them. I think this is when one experiences timelessness in which one recognises the length and the breadth of metamorphic allness. To me this bears a resemblance to what you describe as Christ and to what Paul describes at eph3:18-19
• 

  designs

  Tammy-

  While the Gospels retelling of the Trial and Crucifiction of Jesus has great pathos the reader should be aware that the story is a fabrication of events purposely intended to seperate Jesus from his Jewish origins. Jesus anger at his own race and sympathies to Rome, Mark 12:17, should be early red flag markers that the reader is being taken down a strange path. Paul, Saul of Tarsus, shows the same contempt- 'This very Son of God...was crucified 'under' Pontius pilate by 'your' [Jewish] nation'. One of the most corrupt rulers of the era, Pontius Pilate, is turned into the tender hearted guy who washes his hands of the trial and let's the 'Christ Killers' do their dirty deed.

  In Judaism is the belief of personal responsibility as stated in Prayer, and this Jesus should have known the prayer well if he truly were a Jew, called the 'Viddui'- the Jewish confession before death 'May my death be an atonement for all my sin!'. We stand up and take resonsibility for ourselves before God.

  Theologians have long recognized the the social, political, and religious manuvering of the Gospels against Judaism. Adolf von Harnack in his work Mission and Expansion of Christianity wrote: 'Truly, such an injustice as that done by the Gentile Church to Judaism is almost unprecedented in the annals of history. The Gentile Church stripped it of enerything; she took away its sacred Book; herself a transformed Judaism, she cut off all connection with the parent religion. The daughter first robbed her mother, then repudiated her.'

  One supposed Jew, Jesus of Nazareth, caused the nineteenhundred year massacre of his people as Christians seethed with anger at the 'Christ Killers'. The Gentile Church, believing that the Gospels were the true story of the trial and death of Jesus, brought Golgotha to the homes of millions of our people.

  Rabbi Maimonides, 1200AD, asking that rancor be set aside eloquently wrote that the- Teachings of Jesus and Mohammed have served to bring the words of the Torah to all mankind and so have brought perfection to the world so that they may serve God with one consent.
• 

  Curtains

  designs - you are only giving one loaded side of the picture. The Jew and Romans already had a long term political struggle going on between themselves when christianity was born.

  Politically every country "fabricates" events in order to exist.
• 

  designs

  Curtains- We can discuss 'all sides' such as who among the Jewish community were collaborators with the Romans and so on but it does little to change the corruptions of the 4 Gospels and the Epistles of 'Paul'.

  As one Rabbi observed citing the credulity required in reading the Gospels- 'You would have people believe we really called the curse of Cain on ourselves'.
• 

  Curtains

  designs - I see ou have your mind made up and are not open to discussion so bye bye
• 

  designs

  Well bye then. You see the Watchtower is just following in a long line of Christian religions with their particular form of propaganda. Once you realize that Christianity itself was built on lies and propaganda you stop with any Bambi-eyed sympathies.
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  I have some many problems with Jesus death.

  According to the OT and two books that never made it to the OT, the messiah was not going to be anything like Jesus

  Two completely different accounts on how Jesus got to is destination to be born.

  The reason why Jesus got himself in trouble does not make any sense, eventually Pilate on two different accounts gave Jesus to the Jews for decision making, to the crux.

  And there are others, why do people knowing there are grave concerns about the bible continue to turn a blind eye to these undeniable facts.

  Regarding is death, is yoke is easy on us, its easy on our conscience, his yoke show's the person he his, nothing compared to the God of the OT, he wanted to pay for our sins, to set us free, thats how it works because everything has its price, this isn't something Jehovah planned and I can prove it in scripture.
• 

  Curtains

  designs I've been there done that - so no problem, I may even agree with you on some things in another thread, peace and goodwill to you, bye bye
• 

  ProdigalSon

  tec said: "We can't understand because we rarely know who to turn to."

  Your MASTER taught you everything you need to know, all the answers are in his teachings by way of illustration. He TOLD his disciples this. BUt in all fairness, reading the Nag Hammadi gospels would really help, because the Bible is a product of the Roman Church. They have everything in there they want you to know, but the truth was left between the lines, and in many places right there in the light of day but we were taught to be blind to it by preconceived rock-solid notions..

  Sorry guys but designs has a point that cannot be ignored. These entire accounts were complete fabrications. It is beyond me how anyone can spend any amount of time around here, see all the "non-evidence" of the existence of Jesus and continue to believe that his death was a blood sacrifice to appease a morbid, twisted vengeful god who had an insatiable thirst for blood. To the point where a modern day NUT-CULT kills children so they can keep God's SACRED FUCKING BLOOD to HIMSELF. This very idea originated in Babylon and was brought to the Jews by none other than Ezra, the black magician who brought you the redacted and interpolated OT.

  That doesn't mean that the message loses its value. Instead, the focus becomes, not on a historical figure, but on ONESELF AS THE CHRIST. This is the way the ancients read their myths, and this is the way the gospel was intended to be understood. YOU are JESUS. Plain and simple!

  No, it doesn't mean we have to physically die on a cross. It represents the very same death of the "self" (EGOS!!) that is taught in all the eastern religions.

  Personally, I have no doubt Jesus walked this earth and brought great teachings that completely changed the direction of the human race. HE saved the planet and its future, but NOT IN THE WAY WE WERE TOLD. His teachings were much more low-key and private. It was our KARMA as a WORLD that he changed. I will post about this another time. We have to apply his teachings, not simply believe in them. THAT and $1.95 will get you a 20 ounce coffee at 7-11.