Understanding Christ's Sacrifice (page 5)

tec

Shelby - I know some people get it - and I am thankful that I finally 'get it' too, and happy I was able to share my understanding. I do not want that understanding to get lost in the rest that came after, and I hope it does not, but if I believe untruths are spoken about Christ, I want to try and speak the truth instead.

Designs - you didn't answer my question, (or perhaps you mistook it or I was unclear) concerning your statement that the disciples of Christ were just following Christ when they killed innocents, or that even the NT sanctions that. I asked you to explain to me how His words sanctioned any violence at all toward anyone, much less toward the Jews, the ones He was sent to.

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do."

Amelia - I tried to address that a couple posts up from yours. Did you not agree, or did you miss it perhaps?

Tammy

designs

Tammy-

'Forgive them Father for they know not what they do', let's start here. Maybe it is Jesus who should be doing the apologizing, Jesus tells his own people that he will send them to burn in Hell for all Eternity, the most violent form of torture the human mind could possibly come up with. This is a Sadist ranting. His Followers got the message very clearly- if God/Jesus can harm people so can we, remember the Christian war cry 'We'll send them to Hell' meaning those who would not convert. Once you conceive that something is allowable for your God to do human participation is not far behind, and 2000 years of Christian violence proves they got the Green Light message loud and clear.

Let's go for another- 'Broad and spacious is the road leading to death and many are finding it, few find the road to life', well so much for the kind "I'll help everyone' kumbaya Jesus many have tried to make him out to be. Followup in Revelation where the vast majority of human civilization is slaughtered by Jesus and his Army and sent to the Lake of Fire. This is not a nice guy.

Judaism in contrast was teaching a form of Universal Salvation at the time of Jesus of Nazareth. You could stop by your local Synagogue on any Sabbath and hear the message of universal hope. A thousand years later Rabbi Maimonedes was still offering the Olive Branch to the Christians.

Kind of puts Max Von Jesus Syndow in a whole different light doesn't it.

myelaine

dear PSacramento...

I used the word "motive" because love and compassion should be the motive that leads the leaders to lead faithfully, but the scriptures say that they were leading not faithfully (toward God) and not with mercy (toward the people) but were interested in getting a good name for themselves.

Jesus was motivated by love and compassion but more importantly He was motivated by TRUTH...He didn't tolerate their motives, He condemned the leaders and their motives but also leaving room for them to come to Him during their life and escape eternal condemnation.

...if Jesus is our exemplar He leads the way in stating that He rebukes those He loves. In the evangel ministry(most of the time), if you are telling a person about Jesus and why He was sent, you are confronting error and rebuking it...

dear designs...

are the jewish people waiting for a Messiah/King/Leader? or critique this please-

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (isaiah 9:6)

love michelle

tec

You still didn't answer the question, but instead avoided it and turned it around and made it about a burning torturous pit of eternal hell - which does not exist, is not even scriptural, and Christ did not teach. No one killed on Christ's command. He taught the exact opposite, and he asked for the exact opposite. He even said his disciples would NOT fight to 'crown' him, because his kingdom was from another place - not this place. So the people who killed and tortured and persecuted others in His name ignored Him to go ahead and do what they wanted to do - or, what men told them they should do.

Not Christ, and you can't blame Him unless you ignore what He taught and said as well.

Tammy

PSacramento

Judaism in contrast was teaching a form of Universal Salvation

Why would Jews teach ANY salvation if they were already saved?

designs

Tammy- History and the NT are against you. I can understand you and others wanting to make it nice, warm and fuzzy but he taught the End of this world and the death and torture of Billions by his own hand and his Army.

It goes back to the point about my former religion the Witnesses, I'm guessing at this point you may never have been a Witness, but anyway, Witnesses make the same excuse- a bad Wintess is really not a true Jehovah's Witness, doesn't fly does it.

Michelle- There are large segments within Judaism that beleive the literal Messiah is still to come and they have a prayer said everyday for his arrival. Another large segment sees the Messiah as a 'message' of hope, peace and reconciliation in this life among all peoples.

designs

PS- for krist's sake sit down with a Rabbi someday...... all will be explained

sabastious

Sab - 'taking one for the team' or 'demanding appreciation' or even a 'reward'... these things did not occur to me in the personal experience that I described. I wanted only for that person to be free from obligation and penalty, and I would make amends for them. Now the situation resolved itself, and he/she had not actually done the thing he/she was accused of having done. But it is still only from my very brief experience that I was finally able to understand what Christ did for all of us. Love motivated him, and He knew what would make amends to His Father, and He gave it. Forgiveness, love and mercy, even to the point of giving his life.

I think it can be debated that power is what he truly wanted. The evidence is what he asks in return for his sacrifice: eternal servitude.

-Sab

PSacramento

PS- for krist's sake sit down with a Rabbi someday...... all will be explained

Yes, it has been.

As mentioned before, I have had the previlage to speak with rabbis and even a rabbinic scholar.

No offense dude, but if you think there is only ONE version of Judiaism, maybe YOU need to speak with a Rabbi.

Amelia Ashton

Yes I read it, but no, sorry, I just don't get it.

Understanding Christ's Sacrifice

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