Understanding Christ's Sacrifice

by tec 101 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    snowbirdTammy, you are such a gem!

    I was thinking earlier this am how the Creator became one of the created in order to redeem His wayward creation!

    Jesus of Nazareth is truly our Model.

    Amen!

    Philippians 2:5-8 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

    5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

    6 Who, being in very nature [ a ] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature [ b ] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!

    Footnotes:

    1. Philippians 2:6 Or in the form of
    2. Philippians 2:7 Or the form
    Blessings in Christ, Stephen
  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    aSphereisnotaCircle

    Tec, I firmly believe that you would be just as loving and compassionate even if you were agnostic.

    Credit where it's due and so true.

    People are often attracted to beliefs that uphold the heartfelt values that they want to live by.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Philippians 2:5-8 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

    5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

    6 Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!

    Sounds like a man who knew what he believed in. That's the model I will follow.

    -Sab

  • tec
    tec

    Sab - 'taking one for the team' or 'demanding appreciation' or even a 'reward'... these things did not occur to me in the personal experience that I described. I wanted only for that person to be free from obligation and penalty, and I would make amends for them. Now the situation resolved itself, and he/she had not actually done the thing he/she was accused of having done. But it is still only from my very brief experience that I was finally able to understand what Christ did for all of us. Love motivated him, and He knew what would make amends to His Father, and He gave it. Forgiveness, love and mercy, even to the point of giving his life.

    Sphere and Gladiator - thank you for your kindness. To be honest (and not self-deprecating), I might be loving... to a degree. But I would not know love to the extent that I feel it and mercy growing inside of me, from looking to Christ and gaining understanding from His love. That enables me to grow in love as well. Believe me, I have hurt innocent people, showed lack of mercy, been selfish, etc... and not very long ago either. I grow better than these things because of Him, and where I fail, I am beginning to understand that His love does NOT fail. That compels me even further in love, and to reflect that mercy and forgiveness. Which is not to say that someone else cannot reflect that naturally. But I can only speak from my pov, and know that I cannot. I need Him.

    PS - I am most certainly not an Orthodox Christian, lol. And I totally agree... the New Covenant is written on hearts, not paper.

    Stephen and Syl - I do not believe in the trinity or even that Jesus is God (in a literal sense), but I hope and believe that love transcends these differences in how we view our Lord, and I know that at least you two agree. It is Christ who we look toward and love for Him that we share... not a doctrine.

    Tammy

  • snowbird
    snowbird
    Stephen and Syl - I do not believe in the trinity or even that Jesus is God (in a literal sense), but I hope and believe that love transcends these differences in how we view our Lord, and I know that at least you two agree. It is Christ who we look toward and love for Him that we share... not a doctrine.
    Tammy

    Amen.

    Incidentally, I don't subscribe to the Trinity doctrine, either.

    Syl

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Tammy & Sylvia, if Jesus isn't God then who is He?

    Consider these verses

    Isaiah 44:6-8 (English Standard Version)

    Besides Me There Is No God

    6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel
    and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
    "I am the first and I am the last;
    besides me there is no god.
    7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.
    Let him declare and set it before me,
    since I appointed an ancient people.
    Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
    8 Fear not, nor be afraid;
    have I not told you from of old and declared it?
    And you are my witnesses!
    Is there a God besides me?
    There is no Rock; I know not any."

    And this

    Isaiah 44:24 (English Standard Version)

    24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
    who formed you from the womb:
    "I am the LORD, who made all things,
    who alone stretched out the heavens,
    who spread out the earth by myself    ,

    Now see these verses

    Colossians 1:15-16 (New International Version, ©2010)

    The Supremacy of the Son of God

    15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

    John 1:1-3 (New International Version, ©2010)

    The Word Became Flesh

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    If you believe Jesus is not God then either Paul or John must be mistaken in writing Jesus created all things?

    If you believe Isaiah is correct in his statement i.e. God alone is Creator then Jesus can ONLY be God, not "a god", "Michael" or neither Kermit the frog.

    Blessings in Christ,

    Stephen

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear PSacramento...

    you stated to our tec: "I love your posts because they speak of the teaching of Christ in the best and only way possible, liek HE preached them- Love, compassion, tolerance and accepteance of ALL, not because we HAVE to or because we are COMMANDED to, but because of the Love of Christ that is in Us."...

    did Jesus really preach acceptance of the motives and actions of ALL? the scriptures say that He was intolerant of the actions of the leaders in the temple and the scriptures go on to say that He condemned the leaders personally, calling them (not their actions) a brood of vipers?

    another thing that Jesus preached/taught was that God can not accept everyone into His everlasting habitation because some have condemned themselves. john 3:16-18

    (iow...big snake/little snake)

    love michelle

  • designs
    designs

    Tammy-

    Spoken like a true westernized Protestant Again how can Paul speak of Saving people who were already Saved, remember the 70s slogan on Billboards countering the Jesus Freaks- 'We Never Lost It'. This Abrogation that occurs in the NT is laughable if it hadn't turned out so disastrous to millions of innocent people who lost their lives at the hands of the Disciples of Christ, they got their message from somewhere hmmm a careful reading of what's going on in the NT was as clever as a Watchtower study in subtley turning people's minds into something not so nice. If you think Jesus oversaw the writing of the NT how in hell did a monstrous lie like 'His blood be upon us' ever get included in the Gospels.

    The Jewish citizens didn't miss love or mercy lessons, that is what the NT wants you to believe: see previous references (remember the red flags posted outside of Jewish homes and settlements inviting persons into their homes for a meal) darn if Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, Luke and John forgot to mention that little bit of hospitality among so many other Jewish things.

    God already had everything in place to take his entire human family into Gan Eden in spite of what the new kid on the block was saying. "It" Orginal Sin, mentioned in the NT is the Gentile Church's sole invention and nothing more. Remember the Viddui prayer.

  • tec
    tec

    If you think Jesus oversaw the writing of the NT how in hell did a monstrous lie like 'His blood be upon us' ever get included in the Gospels.

    Who said I think that?

    Christ preached the Holy Spirit teaching and leading people into all truth. Not the 'letters written about me after I am gone will lead you into all truth.'

    darn if Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, Luke and John forgot to mention that little bit of hospitality among so many other Jewish things.

    Obviously good things happened among the jewish people. Who else would Christ have been speaking to regarding the meek or the poor inheriting the earth? (He spoke to Jews; He came for the lost sheep of ISRAEL) What about the woman who put her last two pennies... she was both mentioned, and praised.

    And what makes you think that things would have been any different with the leaders of a religion back then, than they are now? Some good and sincere; many blind and/or insincere. What about a difference between teaching and doing? If its present and visible now, then I see no reason to doubt that it was present and visible then... or that Christ spoke out against it as is recorded.

    But Designs, if millions of people lost their loves, then it wasn't at the hands of the disciples of Christ. Christ taught (and lived) the exact opposite. We can be disgusted and saddened by the crimes and horrific acts people have done in His Name, yes... but that does not mean that He condoned those things or even taught them.

    Anyone who believes in God (whatever your religion) should be able to understand that.

    Tammy

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    Yeah God send himself, or his Son in a suicide mission and die and be resucitated by himself or his father 3 days later or 1.5 with all the sins of humanity paid.

    Sins that were committed by Adam who was made by JEsus or his Father 4000 years early or more.

    So now humans have to put faith in Jesus or his father and accept that he die for our sins (whateever that means)

    GeeeSuss, thats a lot of protocol for only one of his creations, I mean he created everything and only adam sinned.

    Give me a break Jesus, You messed up, just cut and paste a new one.... screw the angels who watched, just create new ones.

    Too much drama.

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