To all lurking JW elders (page 2)

THE GLADIATOR

Your comments seem both measured and reasonable. In fact I am pleasantly surprised at your tolerant attitude. This is because, bearing in mind that you are an appointed elder, there are some of things that puzzle me.

How do you, as an elder, reconcile ignoring Watchtower admission to avoid sites such as this because they are demonised?

You say that you respect anybody's right to leave the Organisation, and to comment positively or negatively about their own experiences. Does this mean that you respect, rather than shun, those that leave your religion? If so, would you refuse to sit on a judicial committee?

chickpea

hi c/c

were the WTS's enforcement of shunning to impact you
directly as a participant should one of your cherished
family or friends decide they wanted their choice to
leave respected, not punished, where would you stand?

do you think, were the WTS to remove that apotropaic
anachronistic impediment to a dignified exit from the
"religion" that there would be a mass exodus of the
conscious class and the fence-sitters?

curiousconfused

Gladiator

Thanks for your comments. You raise an interesting question - and Im not sure I can provide a satisfying answer to it really. In terms of this site, and others like it, then no, I shouldnt be here - I consider it research - and I believe and I can distinguish between thoughtful doctrinal anaylsis, and angry, abusive and bitter rhetoric. I was born-in, and have seen many friends leave over the years. I've not taken that path, and may never.

I do try to respect others - and their desisions. But yes, I have pracised the shunning doctrine. I take the view though that if you dont want to be a JW, then thats your choice - leave, and be as happy as you can. I dont fully understand why so many carry on the psudo-association that exisits here. I especially dont understand those who read the literature with such a fine tooth comb just to criticise it. I would have thought if you disliked the religion so much you'd rather hear no more about it?

Would I sit on a JC for one accused of Apostasy - Ive not had to. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

As for comments made by others regarding cover ups etc, I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

Farkel

:but it just seems to me that rather than offer a better alternative, that most ex-JW's - and certainly the more ardent posters here, just want to extract more folks for its own end.

If you were in prison and someone offered to get you out of prison would you say, "I won't leave until you offer me a better alternative."

"Ok, then. How's freedom from the tyranny of your prison for an alternative?"

"Nope. Not good enough."

Farkel

Doubting Bro

curiousconfused - Welcome to the board. Look forward to your contributions.

I do understand what you're refering to when you talk about the psudo-association that comes from constantly discussing things JW when you've left. As I'm sure you know, there are those that are JW only to keep up family ties and appearances. Even some that are serving in some appointed capacity that either don't believe at all or have serious doctrinal/organizational issues. So, those folks (I'm including myself as one who attends for family reasons but doesn't think the WTS is Gods chosen organization) will critique the literature here since they're not able to do so with loved ones or others in their congregation. Or at least that's my motivation and I'm assuming others feel the same way.

As for those that have either faded or have da'ed or been df'ed, I think the shunning practice is probably why they can't just let it go. I think there are a large number of exJws that don't come to these boards or don't necessarily focus on the literature. They're done and that's that. But, the pain caused by shunning is so great that some feel the need to help others see the same way they do and leave. Honestly, communities that practice shunning (mormons and scientology are 2 examples) tend to have more vocal ex members as opposed to say Baptists.

Anyway, I think your prospective is valuable and hope that you'll stay.

Found Sheep

Welcome c/c and others that don't write anything. The fact that you are here gives you hope that some day you will read that one thing that opens your eyes. As far as "why leave" we all need to make that decission for ourselves. My life is so much happier since I left. Yes, had to go through the pain of shunning, but the other side is freedom!

cantleave

Would I sit on a JC for one accused of Apostasy - Ive not had to. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Confused - I have done that - I felt so bad about it, knowing a decision I helped to to make resulted in the shunning of a young man by his family, just because he attended another church. I have since apologised to him and made my peace. I really hope you don't go through the same experience.

Have you ever read "captives of concept"? I will be happy to forward you a copy (just PM me an email address), it shows it is not just the "overlapping Generation" that is flawed, but the whole premise that the organisation was chosen by God in 1919.

THE GLADIATOR

curiousconfused

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions honestly. Given the anti JW content of on this site, your openness is refreshing.

You come across as a thoughtful and fair man. I hope you are able keep those qualities and that it does not become necessary to sacrifice them to remain an elder. All the best.

hasmat

Welcome curiousconfused,

You said," I struggle to see what is so great about 'the other side'. (being out of the JW Org) Well, for several things I found spiritual freedom to come to 'the "TRUTH", that is listening to Christ (John 14:6) Christ said, "I am the Truth". And he said, "Come to me". (John 6:45) No where in God's word does he say, "Come to the Watchtower to be saved". I found the Watchtower Org a stumbleblock, that is, keeping men from coming to Christ for life. How many times has the Watchtower talks said, "The JW Org is your life line? Or you can't get life unless you are in the Watchtower Org?.. or "Don't drift away"...from whom? Christ or'the Watchtower Org.? Or..."don't leave Jehovah".......meaning what? Leaving the Watchtower Org or any other religion is equivalant to leaving GOD? Who put that idea in one's head? What do the scriptures say about following men? They remind me of those self proclaiming religous rulers Apostle Paul wrote to here:( 2 Cor 4:8)" Already are you filled, already you are become rich, you have come to reign without us: yes and I would that you did reign, that we also might reign with you." Where is the proof that Christ had returned and has given these men who represent the Watchtower Org power over his (Christ's) domestics? The growth? Not so. There are far too many religions out there who have more numbers and who are growing even faster!

Christ said, 'pick up your cross (stake) and follow me." What did he mean by that? That following him would be easy? Apostle Paul said here in Hebrews 13:13; "Let us therefore go forth unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach." And as for those who are here at this web site; exposing the hypocrisy of some elders and of the Watchtower Org and their doctrines; and how spiritually dangerous it is staying there, this scripture explains well why it is necessary:

Ephesians 5:11; "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them."

This scripture should be one's motto: James 1:5; "But if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

I hope you continue to visit here now and again, dear brother;

Yes, there is LIFE outside the Watchtower Org. (Please look up Matt. 12:50 and John 10:9)

Ding

CuriousConfused,

I'm glad you're here, so it's not my intention to drive you off, but here's some food for thought, a little "tough love", if you will:

You're a serving elder.

If a JW in your congregation admitted to lurking on this website and posting comments critical of the Watchtower Society here and asserted his right to do so, would you vote to disfellowship him?

If I'm not mistaken, you yourself are committing a disfellowshipping offense by visiting this website and posting your own comments critical of the generation overlap teaching and of the GB "power-grab" (your words).

Doesn't the fact that you have to be lurking in secret and posting anonymously tell you something?

If the Watchtower Society truly speaks for Jehovah, don't you yourself merit disfellowshipping and destruction at Armageddon, which you supposedly believe is just around the corner?

No one in the WTS may know what you have just done, but Jehovah does, doesn't He?

Can it be that you don't really believe the WTS is what it claims to be?

If you don't believe the WTS is what it claims to be, why do you still go door to door trying to convince other people that it is?

Why are you still serving as an elder when you don't believe it all yourself?

Again, it's not my intention to scare you off from JWN.

It's my goal to get to you look in the mirror and face up to what you really believe about "the truth."

To all lurking JW elders

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