by dontplaceliterature 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007'll learn alot of "truth" here.

  • diamondiiz


    Welcome. You must understand this isn't a JW site and I doubt most of us worry how we express ourselves so as not to offend a possible lurker - maybe we should but really this is an open forum to all unlike JW forums that we would be booted off without even being able to state our case. You have a lot of freedom to ask questions here and state your opinions which is a great thing of real world not that of wts. Also you need to realize that there are many people here from different backgrounds and are at different point in their journey of healing or finding themselves so the expressions here are not monotone like you will hear in a kh or on a jw site. Also consider what jws say about the outsiders? Aren't we as good as dead because we don't follow gb? Don't their pictures depict birds pecking the flesh of the fallen people including children all based on the interpretations of gb? Think about it.

    At this point you have realized there is something wrong with wts but don't have too big of an issue with it. It appears that you haven't done enough research on the wts and it's ever changing doctrines. This, you should do and ask yourself why did gb changed this or that when they did. After all you're teaching this "truth" to others at the door as if it meant their life. For example: at present 1914 is still taught as Jesus' return and all that but probably from reading this board you came to realize that's not what Russell taught and in fact the pillar of all this is the belief that Jerusalem fell in 607BC (while it was 606BC during Russell and Rutherford years)where there is no historical evidence for that. So on realizing that 1914 is just another date in human history you can rationalize that FDS was never chosen by Jehovah and that GB are just self appointed men who jump to their own conclusions and they force their "present" ideas upon their followers since that's what jws really are - GB followers. Since you have no freedom to think outside of wts ideology you also have a duty to go sell this stupidity to the general public. So not only are jws conditioned to be stupid but they recruit and sucker in people, many who are in vulnerable state. How does that make you feel knowing that you may be involved in deceiving others when you claim to study the bible with them while really you would only be studying wts' view of the bible.

    Bible itself has many problems which you may see once you open the pandora's box and you may never have the same trust in the bible or god as you do now. This may be the scariest part and not what may be outside of the wts, coming to realization that there may not be something better after death or that there may not be a second chance. This may be or may not be a latter stage in your journey.

    So I hope you enjoy the freedom of the board to ask questions, debate issues if you must, and learn as much as you can because you may not get the same love that you would get in the kh but what you get at least will be honest and won't be dependent on how you appear to the others. The WTS love is all based on appearances despite the fact there are many good people who are trapped in the cult but the reality is that 99% of these good people will disown you once you get df for openly stating the truth about wts' doctrines (by "you" I mean in a general term and not you personally which it might apply if you were to be df).

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Rank and file reminds me of J. Edgar Hoover's maniacal antiCommunism. What term would you suggest for those who do not make WT policy? The vast majority of Witnesses. I notice that people here have little venom towards rank and file Witnesses. The rage is with those in power at Bethel.

    The strident rage bothered me, too. It does not encourage lurkers. On the other hand, I now believe that encouraging lurkers is only one function of tihs forum. I already knew the doctrinal issues, studied NT academically, took seminary courses. The value I discovered here surprised me: the ability to vent my utter frustration as a Witness with other people who knew what I was talking about. Sadly, this is a broad tent forum but when you read posts, everyone refers to the same JW experience. There are clear, universal hallmarks.

    What concerns me the most is the overreaching, suppression of any independent thought in the most private of areas by the WTBS. I never found even meagre love. Being a Witness is better than being a criminal, though. Their stance on education is deplorable to me. I love academia. Since I was in preschool, I cried to go to school. The male/female subjugation also bothered me. My father was extremely abusive. Every religion breeds extreme abusers. His actions were back by Witness culture. The culture. No one every said anything publicly and I never read an account.

    I asked on another thread was what so bad about knowledge of good and evil. An educated Witness should be a better Witness. It is not information they fear. Facts are facts. What worries them are the critical thinking skills. I was born-in so I had no knowledge of other denominations. College cured that. I believe they distort scripture very facilely.

  • Vidqun

    DPL, as a young Jehovah's Witness, how do you feel about the fact that the Society had belonged to the UN as a NGO for a period of ten years (1992-2002)? Would such a thing bother you at all? Are you aware of terms like "the disgusting thing causing desolation," and "the wild beast ascending out of the abyss," and what they mean? Last, but not least, the governing body vs. the faithful and discreet slave? What are your thoughts on that? Thanks in anticipation for your attention.

  • dontplaceliterature


    I do find the participation, even as an NGO, with the United Nations pretty hypocritical - especially concerning what had to be done in order to gain that status. "Faithful & Discreet Slave" is and idea that is discussed frequently in publications, it is nothing more. The Governing Body has absolutely all the control and they do not answer to said slave, and do not represent anyone but themselves. Crisis of Conscience offers some nice discussion points on this issue. Read it if you haven't.

  • Vidqun

    Why I asked? I read your Introduction, and I see a lot of parallels in your story and mine. But I do realize now, the thread is 11 months old, so a lot of water has run under the bridge since then. I think your parents did a great job, being liberally-minded and encouraging you to better yourself, even if that did go against the grain somewhat. So you owe them a debt of gratitude. But I can imagine, things might have become more complicated since then. Your "downfall" was being a well-read, open-minded, and a free thinker, anathema to those clinging to the "truth".

    What opened my eyes was the UN-NGO-scandal, and their reaction to it. From there I had to adapt my thinking and theology to the new situation. Here's a few thoughts that you might find interesting. First of all, the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses has to be destroyed totally. Their preaching work will come to an end - something that should make you happy (cf. Dan. 11:41; 12:7; Rev. 11:7). This must take place for God said: "I am making all things new." He can't make things new if remnants of the old remain (2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:5). The "great crowd" from all nations and tribes and tongues, coming out of the great tribulation cannot be numbered (definitely not only 7 million). What about those claiming to be of the anointed? They will be tested as to fitness first (Zech. 13:7-14:5). And if you did participate in political affairs by riding the beast, your name will not feature in the book of life (cf. James 4:4; Rev. 13:8; 17:8). Feel free to comment on the above.

  • dontplaceliterature

    The Bible is a fantasy book, IMHO. Thanks though. Go witness to someone else.

  • Vidqun

    Quite a change since your first post on this thread. No, I'm not witnessing to you. I wanted your opinion. It's not information that you will find amongst the Witnesses. They have another version of events. However, I respect your outlook. End of query.

  • jemba

    I enjoyed reading this thread and would love to know how DPL's jouney has gone since starting it a year ago. Sounds like he might have read athiests book of bible stories... lol (saying that the bible is a fantasy book)

  • dontplaceliterature


    I'm still technically a JW, but am fully inactive. I'm happy to be moving in the right direction but am sad that I am losing friends and potentially my marriage. My family is not shunning me, since I am not disfellowshipped, but they will not discuss spiritual matters with me, and it is currently an "elephant in the room". This obviously deminishes the value of our relationship dramatically, especially that with my wife. We don't talk that much anymore. She can't handle the confrontation, and I think she is a coward. She agrees with me on a number of points that would get her disfellowshipped if she shared them with the wrong person. However, she does not wish to lose her social structure. So, it's probably only a matter of time when one of us can't take it anymore. Either she will view me as a spiritual/social threat, or I will view her as a threat to our child and an obstical to my progression outside of the organization.

    However, I am making new friends, and am still young and will be able to move on. So, I'm not really depressed, I'm just trying to preserve some level of patience and balance to see where things go.

    Oh, and I don't believe in God. I'm still getting over the emotion of Him not existing, but from a scholastic standpoint, He doesn't exist for me anymore. The emotion is quickly fading.

    Thanks for asking!

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