by dontplaceliterature 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ThomasCovenant

    Hello and welcome,

    That is one of the more interesting introductions I have read on this site in a while. Hope you stick around and continue. Certainly gives some food for thought on the effects the site has on newcomers and those just looking. Thank you.

    My own view?

    If someone can read the

    whole of 'Crisis of Conscience',

    the whole of,

    the whole of,

    the whole of the wikipedia article on JW's

    maybe have a loved one die from the blood or organ transplant (former) doctrine,

    and still be linked in any sort of positive way with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania

    I tip my hat to them (as long as they are not a woman).

  • dontplaceliterature

    @Aussie Oz

    Thanks, that's the sort of reply I was looking for.

    @Broken Promises

    I listed some of my policy/doctrine issues in the initial post.

  • wobble

    Hi and Welcome DPL,

    Reading your intro. reminded me of where I was a year or so before I left. I was born in, in 1950, and it was all I ever knew as a religion.

    From an early age I had problems swallowing some of the doctrines, in those days they put a lot of stress on Bible prophecies being fulfilled by Rutherford and the Bible Students (as they were known in the 1920's) in some obscure little convention held at Cedar Point Ohio or similar.

    There were the other things too, I could not believe a God of love would destroy anyone of right heart at Armageddon etc. etc.

    I came to see that the 1914 doctrine had no support in scripture, later I found out about the falsity of 607BCE as the date for Jerusalems' destruction, which confirmed for me that the whole thing was a mistake.

    As I was brought up by my parents to follow my bible trained conscience, I could not go and preach to people what was not truth. Eventually I examined the whole of the religion, all its doctrines and its history, and I found it "wanting" to put it mildly.

    This was all a deep shock to me, my whole world view was changed, and I knew that I would lose the friends I had enjoyed for over half a century, and maybe my family too.

    I, like you, was never mis-treated and did experience a tremendous amount of love from the many fine people in the congregation I associated with. I think our experience is ,sadly, almost unique from what I have read on here and other sites. But even those people now treat me like a "worldly" person, we are at arms length, their friendship was totally conditional on my being a JW.

    I would say to you that the worst thing you could do would be to close your mind and leave this site as some have done, I found a number of the expressions used on here hard to bear, and some of the accusations, but there is a wealth of information within the archive of past posts on here, many are so well written and cogently argued that I have filed them myself to refer to should I ever need to use the points in discussion with JW's

    We all need to find our own way in life, but we need to be able to see the path by considering all the information we can as to which road will suit us best.

    Enjoy the freedom you have given yourself to explore, ask away on here and folks will direct you to sources and answer your questions.

    All the best for a great future, and BIG WELCOME again !

  • Listener

    What term do you think is more appropriate than Rank and File? Although they will one day be 'subjects' they are not even that at the moment. The term Bothers and Sisters is just a conjured up title as they are not even spiritual Brothers and Sisters (unless annointed).

  • dontplaceliterature

    @ Listener,

    I guess it's not a HUGE deal. Just a personal pet peve (sp?). Why not just say: "JWs" or "Witnesses"? If you were talking about an Elder or a GB member, you would use the title. Or just say "Publishers"...

    I don't have any high-hopes of transforming the lingo on this site ;).

    I just thought it was worth mentioning, because as an outsider, it seemed kinda mean. That's all....

  • Curtains

    hi don'tplaceliterture welcome - I'll take up one point you mentioned

    Obviously, there is a TON of angry emotion swirling around this board, and that is to its detriment. While I personally have no “axe to grind” with The Society, its abundantly apparent that a lot of individuals here do. Surely, most have a good reason for their feelings, and I would never question that. However I’m not sure it is always expressed well, and many of the angry accusatory posts on this forum were a HUGE turnoff for me (Not naming names...but it's sad that I've only been watching this forum for one month and already can tell who is a hot-head and who seems balanced in their views). They make this forum seem a little more extreme than it is, and perhaps some would do well to consider the affect this will have on lurkers who are trying to open their eyes beyond Watchtower beliefs.

    well the way I see it, the anger expressed here often resonates with people trapped inside and gives them impetus to leave. One of the WTS' masterstrokes is to implement ways of keeping people quiet, well mannered, obedient and orderly. Here people are given the opportunity to do the opposite, and in so doing work up the courage to carve out a life for themselves. Carving out (I love that phrase) involves all the emotion and ingenuity one can muster and when we see this on display it instills confidence. So when I see phrases like "angry, accusatory posts" I reconfigure them to mean passionate protest. This does not seem to have dampened the board's popularity. We don't come to hear to listen to boring, sleep inducing meetings tdesinged to make us agree with everything that has gone before. We come here to vehemently disagree. But I can see that the vehemence sometimes displayed here would put people off - but like you, they can hold back from posting straight away to get a feel for the tempo.

  • only me
    only me


    I was a little off put by the names used here when I first started reading here but I could see the pain through the language. I found comfort in reading the experiences of people who went through experiences similar to my own.

    Your use of "bastard children" is off putting to me too. There are no bastard or illegitimate children only bastardly, illegitimate parents and that has nothing to do with their marital status.

    I stopped being active because the lack of love was glaringly apparent in every congregation I attended. For a while I thought it was just local, but it's not, it is everywhere. I thought the lack was in me...maybe some of it is my own lack...but not all. I haven't shared a lot of my experience here because it is still just too painful to touch, even on these forums, but it is very healing to be here all the same.

    I wish you well,

    only me

  • knockknock

    Welcome to the board Dont place Literature. I joined this group a long while ago and have only recently returned. I enjoyed reading your message. Thank you for letting us know a little about you and how you feel. I want you to know that I love the congregation and often pray for them ( sometimes tearfully) You see, I was born and raised in the Watchtower teachings but after intense study of the scriptures, I found much to be concerned about. For example: the question as to whom are Christ's brothers and sisters,...yes sisters. Matthew 12:50..says, "Anyone who does the will of my father, the same, is my brother, sister or mother."

    My opinion is that this scripture contradicts what the JW elders are teaching the congregation. Christ says, "ANYONE who does the will of his Father are his brothers, ( sisters) Ok then, who in the JW Org are doing God's will? Only a few men in Brooklyn then? Not the 'JW great crowd or other JW sheep class?

    As for 'finding 'The Truth'. No religion can be called, "The Truth". Why? Because Christ said he is "The Truth". John 14:6.

    Also Christ said," ( John 10:9) "I am the Door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved." The elders told me I could never be one of Christ brothers because the 'heavenly door was closed in the year 1935." And the Watchtower taught for decades that this door was shut??????

    I ask,then, how can that be so when Christ said he is 'The Door', and that if ANY man enter in, he shall be saved.'

    The more I studied the scriptures, the more I questioned the teachings of the Watchtower.

    Christ said, "Come to me" ( John 5:39-41) You search the scripture because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these are thy which bear witness of me; and you will not come to me that you may have Life."

    (Matt 11:28-30) "COME TO ME, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and LEARN FROM ME, for I am humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls for my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

    I tell you my brother, I had to leave much (not all ) that I'd learned from the Watchtower and finally began to 'listen closely to Christ instead.' And yes, what he said is true, his yoke is so much lighter! I recommend everyone to do the same.

    After all, it is our heavenly Father's command that we must 'LISTEN to his Son'. (Luke 9:35)

    Oh, and this scripture really pulled me toward him: ( John 1:12 ) "But as many as recieved him ( Christ ) to them he gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe on his name." ( Gal 3:26)(1 John 5:1)

    ( Deut. 32:6) "Is this the way you repay the LORD ( Yah ) you foolish and unwise people? Is he not Your FATHER, your Creator who made you and formed you?"If Jehovah is our heavenly Father, then aren't we sons and daughters? The Watchtower teaches, as you are aware, that only 144,000 are son's of God. (Ps 82 )I could add more scriptures that have made me question the teachings of the Watchtower, these are just a few. Ps 40:4 ) (Ps 146:3) I don't see enough support for the trinity doctrine in the scriptures so I do agree with the Watchtower on this issue. But I find there are too many errors taught at the Kingdom Halls, and this have cause me to separate myself from them.I partake of the emblems now and have done so for over a decade. (John 6:54 ) And I do this out of obedience.

  • ThomasCovenant

    Hello again,

    Your comments

    ''I would say the thing that has kept me in the organization and will likely keep me there for sometime (if I become a full-fledged fader), is the immense amount of love these people have for one another.''


    ''Love is the capital identification of Christ's true followers. I've been in The World while in college and was inactive for most of my young adulthood, and I never once found the deeply fulling relationships that exist for me within the organization.''

    I find interesting. I too was brought up in the religion but I doubted it from the minute I reached my early teens and very quickly came to the conclusion that it wasn't what it said it was.

    Why then did I stay in till I was in my mid 40's? Because as you said ' It's all I've every known from a spiritual standpoint and It's mostly what I'm familiar with from a social standpoint.''

    However, I had to eventually come to the realization that that wasn't a good enough reason to be associated with a religion that I believed was morally, physically and intellectually wrong.

    While I was waiting in the hospital to find out whether my wife was going to survive [she did] her emergency operation due to heavy blood loss I wondered how the hell I was going to justify to my (and my wife's) children that their mother had died because of a doctrine of a religious organization that neither of us believed in but carried on with because 'It's all I've every known from a spiritual standpoint and It's mostly what I'm familiar with from a social standpoint.'

    Hardly a justification when the shit hits the fan.

    I stayed with the Witnesses for 30 years because it was all I knew and I enjoyed the fellowship. Whether it was love or camaraderie I don't know. I've come to realize that that feeling of fellowship is not unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Do you believe that ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses are able to experience that loving fellowship?

    Do you believe that that feeling is impossible to be replicated in any other social group of people who share the same upbringing and viewpoints?

    Do you believe that Muslim mosques do not have the same feeling?


    I hope I'm not coming across to you as too aggressive. I really do think your posting is one of the best I've read


  • Listener

    What a thread. It is really drawing out some sincere, well explained views.

    Your frustration about the witnessing work DPL is not surprising. There has been some analysis of how effective that work is on this forum, it looks like the figures are reviewed each year. It would take an average publisher a lifetime plus to have just one person reach the baptismal stage and that may even be a family member. It is very hard to understand why there is such a push for this work when the method used is so inefective. God does love us to be active and hardworkers but the bible always talks about fruitful success from this and as we are made in his image, achievements are very important.

    You have written a great post KnockKnock and I would be very interested to know if you have written anything else that adds to this. You have your comments well backed up with scriptures. I had been wondering if the JWs really did have the Truth and started doing some research. The internet has been great for this. The first thing that I started looking at was the stance that the org. says Jesus is mediator only to the annointed. I couldn't believe that having grown up as a JW that this was actually taught. Then I found that looking into this led from one issue to another. That is, how the Kingdom of God is not for the Great Crowd at this point in time, also that Jesus' sacrifice and the new covenant (there being the main one and an additional one in JW land) was also only for the annointed and that the great crowd were only beneficieries in all of this. These few men have closed the door for a great number I wondered why this detail was not clear to me originally but when researching the publications I got to see how clever they were in making this very confusing. They use bible quotes out of context, they use the same quotes to mean different things and they make statements which are not supported properly by the scriptures.

    There are many witnesses who are truelly sincere and work hard at doing God's will, I admire them for that. They are not alone though and the org will shout from their tower that they are. The real problem I have is with the leaders.

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