A FOUR LETTER WORD FOR DEBATOR (page 14)

palmtree67

I think Pontoon was being humourously sarcastic......

I thought it was funny.

Heaven

It's the fact it is a profit-making tool for franz to live off anyway.

Ray Franz is dead. He's not living off of anything anymore.

TD

Debator,

You then use examples that again are simply oblique references prophecy even if you put them under other headings.

The word choice of the Gospel writers is not an oblique prophetic reference. Either they used the word or they did not. Neither are the dates when adjustments were made to JW doctrine an oblique prophetic reference. Either they had advance knowledge of the parousia or they did not.

These are both material details that can easily be tested and proven objectively. This is clearly an example of simple honesty or the lack thereof. For a religious organization, this is acknowledged as a serious matter:

"It is obvious that the true God, who is himself "the God of truth" and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood (Psalm 32:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And really, whould you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you." (Is This Life All There Is? p. 46)

Your comments on transfusion are also wide of the mark. If you hold an office where people trust you to the point where they will die following your decisions, then obviously you would be very, very careful in making those decisions because if (God forbid) you made a wrong decision, then you will bear responsibility for whatever harm may result. This is a fundamental ethical norm that persons in positions of public trust all bear. Doctors and Pharmacists live with it everyday.

You've said that the blood issue "is a difficult" one. If we take that comment as accurate for the sake of discussion, this makes the situation worse, not better. Difficult questions require greater caution, not less. The JW parent organization claimed that the Bible clearly forbade certain fractions and had to change their mind and admit that it did not. This should have been a no-brainer because it is impossible to argue fractions from the Bible at all.

Did they learn from this mistake or did they continue to repeat it? Anyone who cared anything about human life would have never repeated this mistake twice The guilt would be too horrible to bear. However the current policy, with it's bewildering and nonsensical array of prohibited and allowed preparations and procedures is written testimony to a complete lack of repentence and remorse.

Again I say refinement is a requirement of God's people until perfection is attained. You accept imperfection apparently while yet still condemning the manifestation of it's consequences in our religion?

I've explained at length now why there are limits to the exculpatory value of imperfection. The key is repentence from past mistakes as you well know.

God and the Bible make it very clear that getting things perfectly right is not posible for us but looking at the gnats that you have to dig up for your arguments in comparison to the camels you clearly ignore outside of the microscope you point at witnesses.

I'm sorry. I saw first hand the damage that mistaking human speculation for Divine law can cause. A dead child is not a "gnat." If that's how you feel, then I would question your Christianity as well.

Do you point that microscope at yourself?

A gratuitous and irrelevant ad homeniem, but I'll answer it anyway. "Yes." If I bore the level of bloodguilt that the leaders and policy makers of the JW faith do, then I would end it right now. There is no way I could live with that.

The stuff you put on the table is obscure debated points and in easy target area's. No religion could stand up to your superfine opinion where you say you do not expect perfection but go into minutia detail over obscure issues that in no way compare to the camels Christendom swallow daily.

Nonsense. I speak of moral integrity, you speak of doctrine. They are not always the same thing.

They can't even get god right but you would have me condemn witnesses over the massive issue of one word's translation regarding prophecy in Revelation. Where is your objectivity in all this?

I realize that it's difficult to have ten conversations at once and I really do sympathize. But you should really pay attention to what each individual is saying if you are going to respond to them by moniker. It is not mistakes that condemn an organization or individual. It is unrepentence.

pontoon

thank you palm tree and mad dawg

mrsjones5

It's the fact it is a profit-making tool for franz to live off anyway.

I read somewhere that Ray Franz really didn't make that much money off of his books.

Mad Dawg

Books have been a profit making tool for Russell, Ruthorford, and the GB. Unless you think they believed their own writings.

moshe

The WT religion and it's leadership is impressive to JWs, only because they refuse to look inside the talking heads of the Governing Body-

---actually, the GB doesn't do any talking for themselves and I doubt they even write their own speeches for the assemblies- a News media interview with one of the GB? They all went into hiding after 1975.

mrsjones5

thank you palm tree and mad dawg

I'm sorry Pontoon, what I said wasn't out of meanness and I did get the joke. I forget that some newbies are delicate (haven't aquired that tough skin yet) and playful sarcasm directed at them sometimes gets lost in translation (Wasblind got it).

tec

No answer, then?

Lozhasleft

Welcome aboard Pontoon...Debator's posts are a frustrating wind up so I dont often engage...come introduce yourself so we can give you a proper welcome !

Loz x

A FOUR LETTER WORD FOR DEBATOR

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