If God truly loved humans...why not reveal himself ? So that they could make an informed decision ?

by smiddy 117 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    God so clearly reveals himself. All you have to do is be born a JW or listen to those whacko JW's that come to your door and be converted to one of them first of all. (If you live in China, India, various Muslim lands, or places where JW's don't really reach you, then you first have to move to the United States or Australia or someplace people like to move to and become a Christian and then get converted to JW or skip the Christian part and go straight to JW.)

    Okay, if you are still with me, you have to learn English somewhere along the way. Speaking it is okay, but you have to learn to read English.

    Now, you can do this early on or later, before or after you learn English, but you have to get disappointed in the JW religion somehow. There are various ways and I don't need to list them here. You can be kicked out or leave, but you have to be so upset with JWism that you seek answers to how you were ever so naive.

    Oh, you need the internet too.

    Now, here's where God reveals himself to you. You finally discovered jehovahs-witness.net because of all the things above. You read and find answers and fluff, but generally learn about dangerous mind-control and the United Nations and stuff like that. You also discover that the Holy Ghost revealed himself to a poster named AGuest. All you have to do is believe everything she writes in English on this ex-JW forum on the internet and God has revealed himself to you through her. That's all.

  • tec
    tec

    and we can conclude that he is either not real or he is not worthy.

    Or we're not worthy, not listening, not exercising even a bit of faith in the Son He sent to reveal himself to us.

    Why did all the miracles stop at the point that man developed the capacity to understand and communicate?

    Who says they did? But there is also very little faith for miracles and/or revelations to occur. If we see a miracle now, then we find another explanation for it. (example, the man who said angels pulled him from a fiery car) And if someone were to say that Christ spoke to them, or shared a particular vision, then they're all automatically mentally unstable.

    Case and point:

    You also discover that the Holy Ghost revealed himself to a poster named AGuest. All you have to do is believe everything she writes in English on this ex-JW forum on the internet and God has revealed himself to you through her.

    First, God revealed himself through His Son, not Aguest. She would be appalled that anyone might think so. Second, no one has to (or even should) believe what she says just because she says it. No one should follow her. She shares what she has heard and says that anyone who wants to know for themselves should go to Christ.

    Tammy

  • superpunk
    superpunk

    Or we're not worthy, not listening, not exercising even a bit of faith in the Son He sent to reveal himself to us.

    See also: blaming the victim. If the best this deity can manage is ancient literary hearsay - then he is not God at all. And I am most certainly not going to blame myself for his incompetence. And neither should you.

  • Berengaria
    Berengaria

    This reminds me of when I was a witness child. If my mind ever wandered on to things that didn't seem to make sense, I would beat myself up and say "stop thinking like that, you are weak, weak!"

    As for the miracles or revelations continuing to occur and being dismissed, isn't that the point? The same miracles you would reveal to a child (ancient man) would be easily fathomed by an adult. So as man is more sophisticated shouldn't the miracles be also?

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    Okay, lets try it this way. He started out walking with Adam and Eve. That got forgotten (except for what is written). He spoke to Moses, led His people from Egypt (many miracles there), all of which faded into the realm of disbelief - even among the people from that generation. Daniel in the fire - never mind that, it never really happened... etc, etc.

    But He HAS revealed Himself to us through His Son, this last time. We only have to look to the Son to see Him, but here we are, so many people disbelieving that this Son ever existed, never mind that He performed those miracles or rose from the dead.

    We aren't very good at hearing or seeing.

    Tammy

    The only problem I have with that, is that His Son's appearance was over 2,000 years ago. According to the WT, world events today are thee only indication of His Son's latest "visible" presence. Sometimes that's not good enough for my own personal satisfaction. I need more evidence. Especially in this day and age of media. How do you expect people to have faith in an invisible God when a significant population doesn't even believe man ever went to the moon?

    Another thing that bugs me, is the bible even makes a subtle case that we might all be stupid for believing all this stuff. So Jehovah spoke directly to the Israelites, but His voice and presence terrified them so much that they insisted Moses do all the talking for now on. (Exodus 10:18-21) There's enough evidence to indicate the Pentateuch was written many years after Moses came and gone, with multiple writers being possible contributers. All with different agendas and rivalries. I'm supposed to "just take their word for it" when it comes to these stories? Especially with a gem like that verse indicating we'd never hear the voice of God again because we'd be too terririfed? So they essentially spelled it out for the reader that we'll have to just "take their word for it" that God at one point spoke directly to mankind without any hangups. So here we are 2010 going on 2011, and again we're left with people who want us to "take their word for it." From individuals on here representing JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH (peace to you!), to several old obscure men in NY representing the faithful and discreet slave class, exclusively by the way!!

    Another issue I have with it is that of supernatural events. I've never seen seas split apart into walls, or armies overnight being slain by one angel, or fish swallowing men whole and puking them back out a few days later. Thats all pretty outlandish. The Christian Greek scriptures got a little bit more realistic, but not by much. Maybe we can even leave those writings up to the reader's imagination. The apostles were freed from jail by an angel, or maybe they just broke out with some inside assistance. People were raised from the dead and healed from their physical ailments, or maybe the ancient people were more advanced in medical treatment than we give them credit for? I don't know, but what I do know....is that these things aren't happening today. When those who claim to represent God perform similar events today or report of similar events it comes off like a fraud or hoax. You know I could look out the window right now from my office floor and make the case that there's a virgin mary image in the hillside. But then, going back to the bible, it makes the subtle argument that we're all stupid for expecting to see such things in our day and age anyway. (1 Cor 13:8-12). Depending on how you read that, the argument can be made that we're childlike for expecting such things or believing such things are even possible.

    I guess this is where faith comes in.(Heb 11:1) I got more faith on some days than others. Overall speaking though, it would be nice if the evidence outweighed the need for faith.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    I think a big part of the problem is that most people have been taught that God is a separate being and our Heavenly Father. This cannot be proven so it's probably wise not to go there.

    The Bible states that God is Love. All of us, male and female know love, have seen love, have given love, have received and felt love. This is the only REAL thing that makes any sense to me in terms of 'God'. I no longer see him as a separate being or Father figure. Love is the most important ideal of all. And it is a part of every one of us.

    We can only go by what we know and what we experience. No one has actually seen a separate being called 'God' so how can you know he is an actual being that exists separately and know where he exists? The answer is "You cannot know."

    The only thing I know is that Love is the most important message from whomever wishes to convey it. Call it what you want -- God, Christ, the Bible, or any other holy book or person. As with energy, we all have it within ourselves and the message is to give freely of it.

    This is ALL that matters.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    The only thing I know is that Love is the most important message from whomever wishes to convey it. Call it what you want -- God, Christ, the Bible, or any other holy book or person. As with energy, we all have it within ourselves and the message is to give freely of it.

    Well said.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    I`m sorry I`m not able to respond to each individual post,I think their have been some interesting, informative posts to my initial question,however I would say a number have responded within a christian judeo world if you like.( Western world ?) What seems to be the case these have deliberately avoided the non christian population on the earth, since the christian era.

    The Peoples Republic of China 1,340,930,000 pop.

    India.1,190,890,000 pop.

    Pakistan 171,195,000

    Bangladesh 149,603,000

    Plus many more non christian nations with many more thousands in population

    So then back to my original question: As to these nations: If God truly loved humans ...why not reveal himself ?So that humans could make an informed decision whether to serve him or not. None of these nations have had any communicado with Gods prophets ,none of these nations have had the visions or miracles the western nations claim have in abundance. You can go back something like 6000 yrs,and you wont find any evidence of the christian ? hebrew God dealing with these people.

    smiddy

  • designs
    designs

    Why is God's kindness so serendipitous....

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    AGuest - Does it matter who had hidden who? Could you prove to me that Yeshua was the Messiah and that GOD did not abandoned David's Kingship as per prophecy?

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