The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

by AGuest 404 Replies latest jw friends

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  THE GLADIATOR

  AGuest - Shelby - God. The greatest of love and peace to you. You have written more words than Jesus Christ himself.

  With every fiber of my being I have a suggestion. Just cut out the middle-man/woman and call yourself God. Then this vast river of understanding, explanation, advice, guidance, divine revelation, peace, holiness, spiritual connection, out of this world pontification and endless out pouring of love, forgiveness, grace, salvation and everlasting threads, would suddenly, in the blink of a invisible spiritual eye, almost make sense.

  May the undeserved kindness and mercy of your heavenly Father and God, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, our Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you and your entire household. YOUR servant, brother, and fellow slave of life... to time indefinite.

  As always, I bid you peace - a slave of life, always.
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  cognizant dissident

  lol Gladiator.

  I was thinking the same thing. Because if you just came out and said that you do think you are special and that God speaks to you because you are more righteous than the rest of us, you would have a lot more credibility. No one could argue with your private experience, even if they did question your sanity. It would just come across as a lot more honest and less hypocritical than your fake humility and fake blessings of peace and attempts to convince us all with fallacious, illogical arguments.

  Come on, confession is good for the soul, admit it. God told you we are all persecuting you and we are going to be burnt toast very shortly, didn't he?
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  tec

  Actually, tec, I think asking someone who claims to have God speak through them, "what makes you so special that God speaks to you?" is a perfectly fair question and is in fact, the first and only question worth asking, even before, "what did he say?"

  It wouldn't even occur to me to ask that question. Because God can choose whoever he wants and it doesn't have to have anything to do with what we think is a worthy reason or not. It is HIS business, to accomplish what He knows is best, and whatever other reason that I do not know or understand.

  It makes no logical sense to me that God would create 7 billion people, and then only speak directly to a few of them, giving them instructions to pass on to the rest of them.

  We can all speak to Christ. We can all pray for the Holy Spirit. Christ is the only mediator, and from what I understand, once we share the spirit then we are brothers with him. From that point we have the spirit to teach us, (we don't need directions from others except perhaps to strengthen us when we falter) and as for sharing things that we hear or that are revealed to us, even in the bible its mentioned that those who heard did this. Nothing wrong with sharing what you hear.

  I think Shelby runs into problems when she tries to explain things further, and I think during these times she sometimes makes mistakes - or - she communicates her meaning poorly.

  Tammy
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  notverylikely

  It wouldn't even occur to me to ask that question. Because God can choose whoever he wants and it doesn't have to have anything to do with what we think is a worthy reason or not. It is HIS business, to accomplish what He knows is best, and whatever other reason that I do not know or understand.

  Of course, but ANYONE can claim that status. THat's why god often provided proof, like with Jesus, Moses and Aaron.

  From that point we have the spirit to teach us, (we don't need directions from others except perhaps to strengthen us when we falter) and as for sharing things that we hear or that are revealed to us, even in the bible its mentioned that those who heard did this. Nothing wrong with sharing what you hear.

  Of course not to that either, but when when your claim is that Jesus speaks to you and you alternatively use the Bible when you like and tell others they can't because it's wrong, when you say Jesus told you things about people that turns out to be incorrect...you can see why the questions would start to arise.

  I think Shelby runs into problems when she tries to explain things further, and I think during these times she sometimes makes mistakes - or - she communicates her meaning poorly.

  Well that does seem to be a common issue with God ;)
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  cognizant dissident

  Well, I can't argue with "God can do anything he wants and talk to whoever he wants." Yes, you're right, he can, if he exists. However, if he wants to convince me he does exist, he's going to have to do a bit more than whisper in Shelby's ear so no one else can hear.

  Because I can only use the brain he supposedly gave me to perceive reality. And my brain requires reason and logic and evidence to believe something exists. So why doesn't he want me to hear his voice? Why doesn't he speak to me in a language I can understand? He gave me ears to hear. They can hear every other bloody noise on this planet. Why can't they hear God's voice?

  (And please spare me the disservice, of telling me its because I don't have a pure or receptive heart. Because that would just be another judgemental cop out along the lines of "I am good and you are wicked and so therefore God talks to me and not to you.")
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  AGuest

  I will try harder to not 'splain so much, dear tec (peace to you!) - LOLOLOLOLOL!

  So why doesn't he want me to hear his voice?

  He does, dear CD. He WANTS everyone to hear it. That Voice... is His Son. You rejecte that, however, so how can you have an issue with Him? You've read virtually everything I've posted to dear NVL. In it, I included step by step what I was told as to how to hear... and have shared with all here, NOT just Israel. If you are unwilling to take the steps, how can you now say He is the one at fault... or I am? I will say to you just as I stated to NVL... put it to the test. Problem is, you all won't even bother. You cry, "How come God won't speak to me... how come I can't hear Him?" and when one says "He DOES and you CAN..." you totally blow them off with a "No, you're lying. Neither can be done." But if you never TRY... how can you SAY that? How can you KNOW that? You have not even bothered to PUT it to the test. Dear NVL says that's because... well, he didn't actually say, did he?

  I will ask you as I've asked him... and asked others... what are you AFRAID of? If there IS NO GOD... no spirit beings at all... if your mind is SO set and SO in control... what could possibly happen?? Your fear... is that you may be misled once again. But how can that HAPPEN? Misled by WHAT? WHO? According to YOU... there IS NOTHING THERE.

  So... what is the logic behind your fear... and your failure to test it out?

  Why doesn't he speak to me in a language I can understand?

  He does. First in your language... and as time passes, in his. It just sounds like yours; however, from time to time, you will recognize that it isn't (for example, there are no words in your language and so you "hear" his).

  He gave me ears to hear. They can hear every other bloody noise on this planet. Why can't they hear God's voice?

  Because He gave you TWO sets of ears... and you are trying to hear Him... or, rather, hear Christ... with the wrong ones. Logic tells you that you have a body of flesh, and thus ears of flesh. But I ask you... are you, CD, the sum total of your body of flesh? Or is there also you... who is on the INSIDE of that vessel? What if you lost your arms? Your legs? Your own heart? A lung? A kidney? What does ANY of that have to do with who YOU are... INSIDE? Nothing. Indeed, your own heart could be removed and replaced with another's. Yet, you would NOT become that person. Because you are NOT your flesh. You are SO much more!

  And THAT is the "man" that you must listen with. Because THAT is the man that is your spirit. And the Most Holy One of Israel is a spirit. And it is between SPIRITS that He speaks... through His Son, the HOLY Spirit.

  So long as you are trying to use your ears of flesh... flesh which is the CURTAIN that stands between us and the Most Holy One of Israel... you will not hear. Even though He calls out. However, go THROUGH the "curtain" that is His SON... and you hear all that you wish to... and more.

  I can only tell you, dear CD - I can't make you do it... or do it for you.

  I bid you peace... and ears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

  "Come! Take 'life's water'... free!"

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  tec

  I don't know why you don't hear, Cog. I, personally, don't know how you can hear if you don't believe in him, mind you... but I don't know if you do or if you don't.

  But there are many people who do believe in Him, who do trust Him, who do love Him and who do follow Him, without hearing an actual voice or requiring proof first. And the love he taught and showed resonates with their spirit, and so guides them.

  And so guides me.

  Tammy
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  tec

  I can say that everything Shelby just posted about hearing with our spirit resonates with me. We 'hear' in spirit, and if you don't believe in spirit, its probably kind of hard to listen with the one you have.

  (Shelby, 'splain all you like :) I just notice that when you (or anyone for that matter) try and explain a second time what you've already explained a first time because someone didn't understand the first time, then the original message/meaning gets lost... and then lost even further when explanations continue a third/fourth/fifth time - at least in one sitting/thread - until the topic becomes something completely other than what it started out as being.)

  Tammy
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  notverylikely

  I, personally, don't know how you can hear if you don't believe in him, mind you... but I don't know if you do or if you don't.

  Oh, I know the answer to this one! I could not beleive in the police, but when they tell me to pull over they will make sure I see and hear them! Oh, and Baalam was forcibly visited by an angel and made to see. God and Jesus both did that when it suited them.

  He does, dear CD. He WANTS everyone to hear it. That Voice... is His Son. You rejecte that, however, so how can you have an issue with Him? You've read virtually everything I've posted to dear NVL.

  Bingo,CD. You didn't hear something, so you rejected it, even though to reject something like an offer, you have to hear it. So the real problem is that you didn't ask with the right heart condition, so it turns out you asked, but Jesus rejected you due to your heart condition. Of course, He didn't bother to tell you how to ask (shelby says just "have faith" but clearly it takes more than that) with the right heart condition so if you had asked and didn't hear and then rejected him, it's your own damn fault for asking, getting rejected and silence as your only answer and then concluding the deafening silence meant no one was there.
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  journey-on

  Shelby, thank you for sharing your experiences, your knowledge, and your wisdom that has been given to you to share with us. It must be extremely hurtful to be spat upon day in and day out, but, I know you don't let it get to you. Peace be upon you when undergoing such trials, and know there are those hearing and seeing and appreciating.

  Very few people are prepared to receive the Light fully. That's right. I said "receive" as in "receiver". "The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." Jn. 1:5 It's there for all to receive. You have free will to make your own choices and build your own receptor. It takes work and faith. Faith without the work is dead and work without the faith is fruitless.