The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

by AGuest 404 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AGuest

  Yeah, people tend to do that when they get backed into a corner :)

  Were you backed into a corner, dear one (and, of course, peace to you!)? You? By little old me? Seriously?

  If you think there is something I purposefully left out, please mention it and we can discuss.

  Ummm... about half the post...

  I left much out simply because I didn't have time to write a book responding to every single line you wrote.

  Well, see, that's another difference between you and I. I think you... and your opinions... are worth my time. True, I may not always be able to respond in one sitting and so I wait until I am able. But my personal opinion is that whatever you direct to me deserves my full attention. Because although I feel pretty safe saying the feeling isn't fully likewise, I believe you are quite serious and your time as valuable as anyone else's. (Note, it's also interesting to note that a whole lot of folks can't be bothered with fully reading things written by others including, for example, the Prophets. Which religion... and most particularly, the WTBTS... counts on...).

  But again, if there is a salient point you feel I missed or is "too hard" for me, please, bring it to my attention.

  Truthfully, I think all of the points were salient and most of them "too hard" for you (because they're too "elementary"). I believe you did read it all, but simply couldn't comprehend...and thus, couldn't respond. Not to worry, dear one: you aren't the first and most probably won't be the last to find themself in this position. (And for those who believe I am being "condescending" toward dear NVL, I ask that you kindly withhold your opinions, as I believe he and I have now formed a "relationship" wherein WE know what we can and cannot say to one another at this point...)

  I will respond to it right after you send me the book, chapters and verses of the bible that are inspired and acceptable for use.

  All "scripture" is inspired. "Scripture" is those parts of [the Book of] Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets, and the Revelation... that have not been tampered with but remain as they were when given to men while they were in spirit. Those parts that were inserted, edited, revised, adapted, mistranslated, mistransliterated, obliterated, reworked, misnamed, misstated, and more... are not "scripture." "Moses" is the Law. The Pentateuch is not "Moses."

  Now, the word of my Lord to you is that if you want even more detail you have two choices: (1) you can... and should... go directly to him as to which books, parts, or verses you are concerned about... and put FAITH in what he tells you; or (2) if you are still unable to hear him, you can ask any one of his servants and they will be permitted to answer you. Problem is, WHO is his servant... and how will YOU know? Which takes you back to choice one.

  Just remember, when you point the finger at me, there are three pointing back at you.

  Not pointing fingers, dear one, not at all. Just pointing OUT truths. That you can't receive them is on you. Again, we hear what we WANT to hear with regard to things of the spirit... and don't hear what we don't want to. Even if it's the truth.

  Peace :)

  Of, course! Likewise... and thank you for that, truly! I totally accept your wish for peace and wish right back upon you... and your entire household!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  All "scripture" is inspired. "Scripture" is those parts of [the Book of] Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets, and the Revelation... that have not been tampered with but remain as they were when given to men while they were in spirit. Those parts that were inserted, edited, revised, adapted, mistranslated, mistransliterated, obliterated, reworked, misnamed, misstated, and more... are not "scripture." "Moses" is the Law. The Pentateuch is not "Moses."

  Surely, there are masses of humans who must have been given this same information by the Holy Ghost. Otherwise, it's no different than Joseph Smith's golden templates that disappeared after he was helped to translate them by Moroni. (That's close enough, unless an ex-Mormon has to tell the story in slightly-to-greatly more detail.) We should or should not believe in the book of Mormon according to a human unless the Holy Ghost personally tells each of us what to do.

  Since there must be masses of humans who have been given this same information by the Holy Ghost, why don't they help us heathens out by editing out those writings in error? Why can't they be more specific than telling us it's some of the writings of Moses and others, but they won't tell us which writings? If it's private revelation, there is no reason for others to believe.
• 

  tec

  I don't think its a very private revelation, OTWO. I mean, I get it... ( as do others )... by seeing God as shown through Christ.

  Tammy
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Tammy, do you know which "parts of [the Book of] Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets, and the Revelation... that have not been tampered with but remain as they were when given to men while they were in spirit" are the actual scriptures? Is your revelation the same as Shelby's? Could you make a list of such acceptable scriptures so that I can start to see the light? Can Shelby make the same list without collaborating with you? Would you? Why or why not?

  Never mind. I know Shelby won't do it. Tammy, you do it- for all our sakes.
• 

  tec

  Could you make a list of such acceptable scriptures so that I can start to see the light?

  No, I can't - and I'm sorry if I made you think that's what I meant. On the whole, I accept it unless it contradicts what Christ taught and showed. I read according to what I know of Christ, and I might get things wrong... but since Christ is the reflection of his Father, then I know I see the Father when I see him.

  That's the best I can do for you OTWO. The book helps point toward Christ. The Spirit teaches.

  Tammy
• 

  believingxjw

  Tammy,

  "On the whole, I accept it unless it contradicts what Christ taught and showed."

  I agree!!!
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Tammy, at least you admit you get some of this stuff wrong. Thanks.
• 

  sabastious

  OTWO: The same argument can be applied to Christ's words. Tammy is just narrowing down her dubious content. She is still unwilling to yield if "Christ said it."

  -Sab
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Sabastious, sometimes I gotta just walk away. Thanks for your input on our latest exchange.
• 

  notverylikely

  Were you backed into a corner, dear one (and, of course, peace to you!)? You? By little old me? Seriously?

  Of course not. I've been here the entire time waiting for for you :)

  Ummm... about half the post...

  Be specific :)

  Well, see, that's another difference between you and I. I think you... and your opinions... are worth my time.

  I think both yours and Tec's are too. The reason I don't respond to everything is that the answer is the same to so many thing. Answered once is enough, my dear.

  Truthfully, I think all of the points were salient and most of them "too hard" for you (because they're too "elementary"). I believe you did read it all, but simply couldn't comprehend

  Feel free to point one out. Something I have noticed is that those in the"you don't get it" camp, such as you and Zannahdoll, do, is claim that and then NEVER EVER back it up with anything except "GOD told me" or "let's agree to disagree". I have yet to back down and find something I don't understand that you folks have said.

  If there is something you feel I am not getting, please please please point it out.

  you aren't the first and most probably won't be the last to find themself in this position. (And for those who believe I am being "condescending" toward dear NVL, I ask that you kindly withhold your opinions, as I believe he and I have now formed a "relationship" wherein WE know what we can and cannot say to one another at this point...)

  My darling, of COURSE you can tell me this. We, you, me, tec, Zannah, we should be able to be completely honest and loving at this point. And I know I am not the first nor shall I be the last to find myself debating with people that change the rules and goalposts as it suits them :)

  All "scripture" is inspired. "Scripture" is those parts of [the Book of] Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets, and the Revelation... that have not been tampered with but remain as they were when given to men while they were in spirit.

  Now, the word of my Lord to you is that if you want even more detail you have two choices: (1) you can... and should... go directly to him as to which books, parts, or verses you are concerned about... and put FAITH in what he tells you; or (2) if you are still unable to hear him, you can ask any one of his servants and they will be permitted to answer you. Problem is, WHO is his servant... and how will YOU know? Which takes you back to choice one.

  I am asking you. If you are his servant, this should be easy for you. It's a simple list :)

  Not pointing fingers, dear one, not at all. Just pointing OUT truths. That you can't receive them is on you. Again, we hear what we WANT to hear with regard to things of the spirit... and don't hear what we don't want to. Even if it's the truth.

  Of course you are. You blame the receiver when the transmitter is all powerful, all knowing and should be able to overcome any receiver problems as he has done many times in the past. And you just did with the "on you" part. That's almost the best part, that you all blame everyone else for not hearing even as you cannot defend what you say with logic, reason or the Bible and you don't even see it.

  Of course, my love, peace