Atheist believe there is no God? Yes we do, strongly!

by bohm 139 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BurnTheShips

  One of the definitions of agnosticism is that this person believes that the existence of God is in principle unprovable - either positively or negatively.

  Well, I do not believe you can prove the existence of God empirically, and your statement would therefore make me an agnostic. But I am not an agnostic.

  Somewhere in your statement there seems to be a flaw, and that flaw resides in the bolded part.

  I think it should be modified to this:

  ....in principle unknowable....

  This is different from unprovable.

  BTS
• 

  Caedes

  A true Atheist actually believes there is no God, and that they can prove it.

  Does that mean that the only true theists are those who believe they can prove the existence of their god?
• 

  JWoods

  Well, I do not believe you can prove the existence of God empirically, and your statement would therefore make me an agnostic. But I am not an agnostic.

  Somewhere in your statement there seems to be a flaw, and that flaw resides in the bolded part.

  No Burns - that makes you (in my view) a faith-based theist who acknowledges that he has no proof but relies on faith.

  I think it should be modified to this:

  ....in principle unknowable....

  This is different from unprovable.

  Knowable, to me, without proof - implies a measure of faith. Provable, to me, implies demonstrated evidence to back up the belief. An adherent to strictly scientific method would almost certainly never claim to "know" something he could not "prove". A religious thinker almost always claims to "know" things that he cannot "prove".
• 

  JWoods

  Does that mean that the only true theists are those who believe they can prove the existence of their god?

  Faith-based theists, like Burns said above, do not believe they can prove it - they believe it on faith. There probably is no truer form of theism than that.

  Athiests, however, often seem to deny that they use faith to pronounce something they cannot prove - i.e. - that there is definately no god.
• 

  agonus

  No, haven't you heard? The politically correct term for "atheists" is "Brights" now! This, of course, should not in ANY way be misconstrued as an attempt to paint believers as not-so-bright (cough Dawkins cough cough).

  Well, I guess if I had to pick sides, I have to admit I'd go with dumbasses like Newton, Jung, and Pascal instead of towering intellects like Penn and Teller. There. I said it. My resolve has been weakened, I'm agnostic no more... I'm such a pussy...
• 

  bohm

  DD: It looks to me, if I understand what you are trying to say, is that without God, YOU can't "know" anything (for sure) and I agree it's silly and irrational. So why do you hold to it?

  Where exactly do i say i know anything for sure?

  wobble: couldnt have said it clearer!

  JWOODS: A true Atheist actually believes there is no God, and that they can prove it. I agree with the first part of the statement, not the second. Pity your friend was not hit - it sound like he could need some ECT!

  BTS: Finally an on topic post! Good illustration.

  ---

  Its dangerous to throw around the words know, proove, fact, belief, disproove, etc - in science there is really only degrees of belief.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Where is the concessions stand? This might prove to be an epic match!

  Jeff
• 

  Gregor

  I'm sure this will be settled within another page or two.
• 

  bohm

  JWOODS: Athiests, however, often seem to deny that they use faith to pronounce something they cannot prove - i.e. - that there isdefinately no god.

  ....but lets focus on contemporary, mainstream atheists who are not crazy, then i wont confuse mainstream theists with a mormon or radical islamist ;-).

  agonus: i really, really hate the term "brights" to.
• 

  JWoods

  OK - let me redefine my view of Athiest:

  This is a person who strongly believes there is no God. He may or may not claim to have proof.

  SO - my definition of Theist:

  This is a person who strongly believes there is a God. He may or may not claim to have proof.

  AND - my definition of Agnostic:

  This is a person who takes no position on the existence of God. He may belive that the existence or non-existence of God is unprovable, or he may only claim to simply personally not know.