Was that an anti-semitic comment from Alice?
"1. Profoundly, persistently and terminally ignorant, the product of decades of poor research and blind acceptance of whatever comes out of New York.
When confronted with FACTS regarding charity and giving to the poor she quotes the WT policy, not intellectually capable of telling the difference betwen stated policy and actual practice. She only knows what the WT tells her, and she takes it at face value. For her, the WT is an unimpeachable source; she knows this, because they have told her so."
Nobody's presented any "facts." You could at least get Barbra Anderson to forge you some credit card statements from the GB she found while snooping around at night, or you could superimpose the GB in whatever luxury car or hotel with Adobe Photoshop. Some tangible conjecture so that others will believe they abuse the organization's financial assets. The bizarre thing is other religious leaders present all the evidence one could ask for, yet you insist on barking up the wrong tree.
"2. Parasitic: as a witness, she likely accepted vaccinations (made from blood) as a child, but still thinks she 'abstains' from blood, and will not donate blood to replenish the amounts used for 'blood fractions' that she likely feels it is OK to take."
This has little to do with the subject at hand. I've never taken blood in anyway, shape or form. The faithful and discreet slave never said it was "OK" to accept blood fractions, they simply left the matter open to the decision making of an individual. If you continue to break down blood and isolate it into fractions, there's a terminal point when it can no longer be considered blood. It eventually breaks down into chemical elements found in numerous organic chemicals. If a person accepted a blood fraction and in return donated their own blood, there's no indication how the blood will be administered when transfused. On one end you condemn Jehovah's Witnesses for respecting the Bible's view of blood and out of the other side of your mouth, you condemn them if they accept fractions. Could you be anymore dishonest?
" Nobody's presented any "facts." You could at least get Barbra Anderson to forge you some credit card statements from the GB she found while snooping around at night, or you could superimpose the GB in whatever luxury car or hotel with Adobe Photoshop. Some tangible conjecture so that others will believe they abuse the organizations financial assets. The bizarre thing is other religious leaders present all the evidence one could ask for, yet you insist on barking up the wrong tree."
We all know you are a troll, but the question is, just how much do you have invested in the Org. what is it about Barbara Anderson
that frightens you so much ? it's because she knows to much, and you must at all cost try and discredit her , I wouldn't be surprised
to find out that you are in fact still in the Org, probably at bethel with specific instructions to be on this site. but you have been proven
to be wrong on a lot of things about your religion so you have to portray yourself as a witch or a whore to try and throw people off
i personally believe you are a troll from bethel. The WTS is feeling the sting of ex-JW sites
I just found out a Witness couple who have spent decades working on Bethel Branches and Factories around the globe and just finished working on the South Korean Branch returned to the USA and are living in a garage.
You would think that any group who claims to care for humans would care for the workers who have spent most of their adult life working for Free. They sould be taken care of in their senior years, but not this Group.
This has little to do with the subject at hand. I've never taken blood in anyway, shape or form.
The point for me in every thread you touch is your sickening dishonesty and nauseating apologies for the old men in Brooklyn who tell you what to do.
They have told you that products made from blood don't use blood, and you are so corrupt and gullible you just accept it.
I've never taken blood in anyway, shape or form. The faithful and discreet slave never said it was "OK" to accept blood fractions, they simply left the matter open to the decision making of an individual. If you continue to break down blood and isolate it into fractions, there's a terminal point when it can no longer be considered blood. It eventually breaks down into chemical elements found in numerous organic chemicals.
See, you are making my point; ANSWER THE QUESTION: have you been vaccinated, ever? If you have, you have taken a product made from BLOOD.
You can't honestly say it isn't; if you don't start with the killed organism collected from blood, you can't make a vaccine.
If you continue to break down blood and isolate it into fractions, there's a terminal point when it can no longer be considered blood. It eventually breaks down into chemical elements found in numerous organic chemicals.
This is a facile lie; if they were just organic compounds, then why don't JW's use the organic compounds instead of blood fractions? HERE is the thing you will not admit: IT COMES FROM BLOOD, the substance you say is so sacred it should be poured out.
On one end you condemn Jehovah's Witnesses for respecting the Bible's view of blood and out of the other side of your mouth, you condemn them if they accept fractions. Could you be anymore dishonest?
I do NOT condemn them for taking fractions; I condemn that they take them and delude themselves that they are not taking blood. The argument is ridiculous on it's face, and worse when examined, and I condemn them for being so selfish and ideological that they will not donate blood when they deplete the supply, all because they can't stand the idea that someone might take it whole instead of breaking it up into the tiny bits that make them so happy.
Listen, if anyone, witness or Non-Witness, has eaten Big Macs from the time they were kids they have eaten buckets of blood. I have never seen a Witness blanche their meat like an Orthodox Jew does. There are a few Witnesses I have known who are vegetarians, but even thay have gotten vacinnations and the serum from blood.
Shall we talk about the white blood cells in Mother's Milk.
In true Alice fashion, he/she/it has derailed the topic of WT spending into yet another debate about blood.
As soon as he/she/it gets a smackdown on one topic, it changes the topic.
My honest opinion about "Alice" is this:
1. She is not a "strong" witness
2. She does not believe what she says
3. If she is a witness, she is doing what they all do when confronted with a subject they can't defend...change the subject.
4. She is counting her time while posting on this site
5. We need to find out her cong. and where she is from so we can let the elders know that she is contributing to an "apostate" site.
6. She is full of guilt, and she is dealing with that by tearing everyone else down that she thinks are below her
7. She is a man, baby
The faithful and discreet slave never said it was "OK" to accept blood fractions, they simply left the matter open to the decision making of an individual.
And that is what is called a lie by omission; you omit the fact that for DECADES they FORBID blood 'in any way, shape or form' from entering their bodies, I know, I carried the card. WORSE, when they changed this policy, they couched it in such fuzzy language the fellowship didn't get it, that all blood fractions were now OK, not a DF'ing offense. How many witnesses died not knowing they could now take any amount of blood fractions their 'conscience' would allow?
1940 - Report of a doctor donating a quart of his own blood during an emergency. It was portrayed as heroic (Consolation, 12/25, p. 19, #53).
1945 - Blood transfusions and blood products are officially banned as "pagan and God-dishonoring." (Watchtower 7/1/45, p. 198-201)
1949 - Organ transplants are discussed as unobjectionable and "wonders of modern surgery." (12/22/49 - "Spare Parts for Your Body")
1951 - Clayton J. Woodworth, editor of the Golden Age/Consolation until it became Awake in 1946, passes away and is buried on December 18, 1951. (Watchtower 2/15/52, p. 128)
1952 - In a letter dated April 15, 1952, vaccinations, such as smallpox, are now officially allowed. Many Witnesses have already been taking them for a dozen years or so, and the Society has known that smallpox vaccination does not contain blood ever since being advised of this by a Witness named William Cetnar. It is certainly reasonable to speculate that the ban wasn't officially lifted until 1952 out of respect for Clayton J. Woodworth who was so strongly opposed to vaccines. Watchtower 12/15/52 P. 764
1953 - "Vaccinations are no longer considered feeding on blood and no longer considered related to sex relations. (Make Sure, P. 48, #47).
1954 - Blood serums are wrong. " We are told that it takes one and a third pints of whole blood to get enough of the blood protein or "fraction" known as gamma globulin for one injection... its being made of whole blood places it in the same category as blood transfusions as far as Jehovah's prohibition of taking blood into the system is concerned."- Awake! 01/08/1954 p. 24
1958 - An answer to a "Questions From Readers" explains that an anointed sister should be allowed to partake of the emblems at the memorial if she has had a blood transfusion, reasoning that she is simply immature. (Watchtower 8/1/58, p.478)
1958 - Blood serums are OK. Important ruling on blood serums like diphtheria antitoxin and gamma globulin states that these may be used as a matter of personal judgment. (Watchtower 9/15/58, p.575)
1959 - Blood has to be poured out, therefore, it would be wrong to remove one's own blood, store it and later put it back. (Watchtower 10/15/59, p. 640)
1961 - Accepting blood or a banned blood product is made punishable by disfellowshipping. (Watchtower 1/15/61, p. 63-64)
1961 - Organ donation is a matter of conscience. (Watchtower 8/1/61, p. 480)
1961 - Personality traits, the impulses to commit murder and suicide are transmitted in the blood. (Watchtower 9/15/61, p. 564)
1963 - Blood serums are wrong. 1958 ruling is overturned. Any fraction of blood is now considered as a nutrient and forbidden. Ruling does not apply to vaccines. (Watchtower 2/15/63, p. 124) Note: Published comments from the WTS in 1961 had created much confusion about blood serums.
1964 - Blood serums are OK. Just 21 months later the position reverses again! This is the fourth complete reversal in seven years. (Watchtower 11/15/1964 pp. 680-3) View our database of WTS published positions on blood serums.
1964 - Witness doctors may administer transfusions to non-Witness patients. (Watchtower 11/15/64, p.682)
1966 - Blood transfusion is referred to as cannibalism (Watchtower, 7/1, p. 401, #57).
1967 - Organ transplants are now cannibalism. This is another total reversal. Organ donation is now strongly advised against. (Watchtower 11/15/67, p. 702)
1971 - The heart is not just a pump, it is linked to the brain through nerves and is the actual organ where affections, motivations, desires and emotions are literally formed. (Watchtower3/1/71, p. 133-135)
1974 - Another complete reversal on blood serums. They are once again a matter that must be left for each individual conscience, though the article seems to be hinting that they are not such a great idea. (Watchtower 6/1/74, p. 352)
1975 - As to the treating of hemophilia with plasma factors the Society says of course, that true Christians do not use this treatment, heeding the Bibles command to abstain from blood. (Awake 2/22, p.30, #74).
1975 - Four months later a reversal. The Governing Body decides that blood fractions for Hemophiliacs are acceptable as a matter of conscience. Beginning in the early 1970's brothers were told that they could accept a one time only treatment. Those phoning the Society after June 11th are told that they may make a personal decision about whether or not to use Factor VIII and IX. This policy will not become official for three more years, apparently because the governing body does not want to officially reverse itself so quickly. Those who have written about using factor VIII and IX are contacted directly by the society. Those who called by phone cannot be contacted and likely die.
1975 - Those who accept organ transplants and blood transfusions may suffer a personality transplant as well. (Watchtower 9/1/75, p. 519)
1977 - Blood transfusions are now considered organ transplants, and parents must be allowed to refuse blood transfusion for their children. ( Jehovah's Witnesses and the Question of Blood, p.41)
1978- A softer position on serums. They are apparently not a method of "sustaining life." Hemophiliacs now officially learn that may accept treatment with blood components or fractions, if they had called the Society they would already have learned this some 3 years before, if they didn't call, then they were probably dead by then. Witnesses may use heart-lung machines if primed with non blood fluids. (Watchtower 6/15/78, p. 30-31)
1980 - More "new light" on organ transplants. In a complete reversal, they are no longer to be considered cannibalism, and elders should not take judicial actions against a Witness who has one. (Watchtower 3/15/80, p. 31)
1980 - The Society is now setting up hundreds of HLC's or Hospital Liaison Committees. Lists of sympathetic doctors are kept, and the committees will endeavor to circumvent doctors of social service agencies who try to intervene on behalf of minors.
1982 - The Society introduces it's doctrine of major and minor blood components. Minor products are allowed, major ones are forbidden. Hemodilution is listed as objectionable. (Awake 6/22/82, p.20)
1984 - Bone marrow is discussed as a matter of conscience, but seems to be discouraged. (Watchtower 5/14/84, p. 31)
1984 - The Society quietly abandons the idea that literal heart is responsible for affections, motivations, desires and emotions. (Watchtower 9/1/84, p. 6)
1985 - AIDS is seized upon to give credibility to the Society's position on blood. (Watchtower 6/15/85, p. 30)
1988 - AIDS has become a world-wide problem the Society frequently sites as proof of the correctness of their doctrine, and claims that their policy has protected Jehovah's Witnesses from AIDS. They acknowledge that some 10,000 Americans with severe Hemophilia have been infected. What they fail to mention is that these individuals were infected because of treatment with Factor VIII and IX, which have been on the approved list for the past ten years or more. The Society's position was no protection at all for these Witnesses. We estimate that several dozen Witnesses contracted AIDS in this manner. (Awake 10/8/88, p. 11)
1989 - The Society appears to open the door to some intraoperative autologous transfusions. Though not mentioned by name, it is implied that use of scavenging techniques are permissible. (Watchtower 3/1/89, p. 30,31)
1991 - Witnesses are encouraged to rehearse what answers they will give if questioned by a judge. (KM - 3/91)
1992 - The Society tells us not to be concerned about whether or not food contains blood unless we have good reason to suspect that it does. (Watchtower 10/15/92, p. 30)
1994 - "Youths Who Put God First" - Article about Witness youths who have died as a result of the blood prohibition. (Awake 5/22/94, p.3-15)
Discussion of RH factor (made from blood serum). Article states that "this journal and it's companion have commented consistently on this matter." (Awake 12/8/94, p.27) Note the RH injection was absolutely forbidden until 1974, and still discouraged until 1978. Witnesses who receive this type of blood transfusion are typed and receive the same identifying wrist ban as any other transfusion recipient.
1995 - A Witness may have his own blood transfused back into him under certain circumstances. Acute Normovolemic Hemodilution (ANH) and autologous blood salvage procedure (Cell Saver) are acceptable and involve brief storing of the blood outside of the body. (Watchtower 8/1/95, p. 30)
1997 - Elders encouraged to help and provide understanding for those who have accepted blood transfusions. In judicial cases elders will remember that love is the backbone of Christianity, and they will temper firmness with mercy. (Watchtower 2/15/97, p. 20)
1997 - The Watchtower Society allows a Jehovah's Witness in Australia to accept a new therapy involving the transfusion of white blood cells. These are still listed as a prohibited blood product by the Watchtower. The procedure is called "autografting", which sounds more like transplants than transfusion, and the setting of leukapheresis is for CD34+, rather than usual granulocyte. Learn more about this procedure.
2000 - In the spring, Circuit overseers in the United States receive a letter instructing them to inform local bodies of elder not to disfellowship anyone who accepts blood transfusions. If their conduct becomes known and they are deemed unrepentant, they will be considered to have disassociated themselves.
2000 - In June the Watchtower institutes sweeping reforms of its blood policy. "...when it comes to fractions of any of the primary components, each Christian, after careful and prayerful meditation, must conscientiously decide for himself." This lays the foundation for members to accept oxygen carrying hemoglobin solutions. (Watchtower 6/15/00 p.29-31) Reports soon filter in from the media confirming the new policy on hemoglobin. In September it becomes evident that the WTS will permit the use of bovine hemoglobin.
2004 - The June 15th Watchtower expands on the June 15, 2000 article. For the first time, the rank and file Jehovah's Witness learns that the single largest blood component (hemoglobin) is now permitted as a matter of personal choice. (Insiders and AJWRB members have known for four years. JW's have been using Polyheme and Hemopure where available in clinical trials as well).
Here is a list of Watchtower Charities that benefit anyone, regardless of religion, sexual orientation, etc:
Here is a short list just of Catholic Charities in the New York area:
(I loathe the heirarchy of the Catholic Church, but here is a list of non discriminating charities)
In a congregation I went to, a couple studying with the JW's in the Czech Republic used Catholic Charities in their country to get plane tickets to the US!
I. List of Catholic Charities Community Services Programs:
Featured Program: AdultEmployment Program: We help more than 1,200 individuals annually obtain steady, meaningful employment by identifying and removing personal and professional barriers to employment. We provide case management, job placement, job readiness skills training, English for Speakers of Other Languages courses, and offer individuals free, interview appropriate clothes from our Back-to-Work Boutique.
Case Management: Professional staff assist needy New Yorkers obtain resources ranging from food stamps and counseling to emergency cash assistance which enables them to support themselves and their families and improve their quality of life. Last year, we provided more than 6,000 individuals and families with emergency financial and in-kind support.
Information and Referral: Through our toll-free help line and face-to-face assistance, we respond to more than 14,000 requests for information on an annual basis. Professional staff provide information and referral services in such areas as public entitlements, emergency food, shelter, employment programs and programs for the elderly.
Emergency Food: Through our network of community and parish based food pantries located throughout the ten counties of The Archdiocese of New York, we serve nutritious meals, three times a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year to thousands of individuals and families.
Homelessness Prevention: We help families maintain safe, affordable, and quality housing through advocacy and rental assistance. On an annual basis, 4,000 families in New York avoid eviction and remain safely housed through our efforts.
Bronx Thrift Store: Located in the South Bronx, in one of New York City’s poorest neighborhoods, the Thrift Store offers more than low-cost, quality, slightly used clothes and furniture for local residents. Our Back-to-Work Boutique specializes in free, interview appropriate clothing for individuals seeking employment. We also have professional staff on hand to provide referrals to other necessary services like educational programs, food pantries and Food Stamp programs, assistance with rent and utilities arrears, and immigration services.
Immigration and Refugee Services: Our immigrant and refugee services are comprehensive and include operation of the New York State Immigration and National Refugee Hotlines which helps thousands of newly arrived families and individuals find protection from persecution in their native countries by seeking asylum in the United States. We also provide immigration legal assistance to over 5,000 individuals annually, as well as help 500 immigrants and refugees to resettle in New York by providing access to social, employment and educational opportunities.
Beacon of Hope: Catholic Charities provides comprehensive supportive housing services to 430 chronically, mentally ill adults in the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Staten Island. Our programs are recovery focused and enable tenants to live their lives with dignity and independence.
Services for the Visual and Hearing Impaired: We offer mobility training and rehabilitation services, in addition to academic instruction, English as a Second Language classes, pre-vocational and vocational training to more than 2,000 visually and hearing impaired individuals on an annual basis.