WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

by Dogpatch 270 Replies latest jw friends

Essan

Consfearacy, all you are demonstrating there is that the Society completely contradicts themselves. You know, because you were shown, that the Society has also said the EXACT OPPOSITE!
"...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves."---- Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4
"A true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible....... It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan ".----Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying." (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
So your defense is that the Society contradicts itself Well done! What a surprise that as the internet became widely available and the hidden truth of their history of "false prophesying" could be discovered and exposed by anyone they decide it's time to completely change their judgement. What a shock! All this shows is that when they are caught out by their own judgments, they are willing to say anything to try to excuse themselves. They make it up as they go along, to suit themselves, because they are False Prophets. This self serving 'new light' from the Society directly contradicting their former statements and which - conveniently - serves to try to excuse their own career as 'False Prophets' has nothing to do with the Scriptures, which, like their own literature, says the exact opposite.
Thanks for highlighting this!
PS Why I highlighted 2000 as related to the Society using dates and to "False Prophesy" is because said of the Watchtower: "This magazine builds up confidence in the CREATOR'S PROMISE of a peaceful and secure "new world" before the generation that saw the EVENTS OF 1914 passes away".
This is a false prediction in God's name.
They also said: " The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." (Watchtower, January 1, 1989, p. 12, "
Seeing as they believe the good news is preached until the end - "and then the end will come" - stating that the preaching work would end "in our 20th century" places the year 2000 as a marker date, beyond which, this system could not pass. It's a prediction.
Again though, I see you think finding a a place where the Watchtower contradicts themselves somehow exonerates them. LOL. No, it condemns them further.
Consfearacy

Essan said, "So your defense is that the Society contradicts itself Well done! All this shows is that when they are caught out by their own judgments, they are willing to say anything to try to excuse themselves. They make it up as they go along, to suit themselves, because they are False Prophets. This self serving 'new light' from the Society directly contradicting their former statements and which - conveniently - serves to try to excuse their own career as 'False Prophets' has nothing to do with the Scriptures, which, like their own literature, says the exact opposite."
If a religious organization that made a false prediction is reformed from within they are no longer subject to your accusation. I've more than once emphasized this and you've rejected it, case closed. They made a direct statement about the year 2000 not having any significance in the 1990's. You rejected that. A past mistaken viewpoint does not have indefinite implications for Jehovah's Organization. If it does in your mind, there's a difference between you and Jehovah. By dissociating yourself from Jehovah's Witnesses, you can do anything you want and call yourself “Christian” in your own mind.
Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, for fear anyone should fall in the same pattern of disobedience. For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart. And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting. Hebrews 4:11-13
And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:24-25
If I was to follow your example and disband from the organization and later ask you why God has become illusionary, what would you tell me? I've only read a few of the threads here and I've already noted at least one atheist on this forum. I seriously doubt you'll have any answers for him.
It's the practical, not metaphysical questions about theism that will interest ZeusRocks the most. The questions vastly multiply when you seriously consider that according to the Bible, God directly communicated with human beings over the last few thousand years, and records men that performed miracles. What exactly distinguishes one supernatural claim for one God from another. At this point, the Deuterocanonical books (biblical apocryph) of the Bible and the Qu'ran are called into question. By accepting theism, are you entitled to accept all supernatural claims that human beings have made throughout history? If not, why not?
An earthquake struck Lisbon in 1755, killing about 30,000 people, leaving many more homeless. Why did "Allah" permit floods to kill 1,600 innocent Pakistanis in the last few weeks? Why did God create a world that is subject to natural disasters? Is he not omnipotent? How can this appalling carnage possibly contribute to the greater good?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200709/article_01.htm
Is God Responsible for Natural Disasters?
Are earthquakes, extreme weather, and other natural disasters acts of God? Consider the Bible’s explanation.
You can attempt to try and decimate the efforts of Jehovah's Witnesses bringing the truth about God to others all you want, but unless you can answer practical questions, your counterfeit motives will be revealed.
Essan

Consfearacy, you said: If a religious organization that made a false prediction is reformed from within they are no longer subject to your accusation.
They are not reformed, their predictions - plural - failed. You have to drop a date when it fails, that's not 'reforming' it's having no choice. Then also tried to hide or lie about the fact that they ever made certain predictions. That's not reforming and it's not repentance, it's covering over their error . If you do that, then according to the Bible you are still to suffer the penalty for it. The year 2000 issue is just one of dozens, and it's one of the least significant, I only raised it because you implied they had made no prediction for 2000. I proved they did, and you - as always - just switch issues to claiming "well, it doesn't matter because later they said something different". It does matter, according to the Bible, if you make a prediction and call it the ' Creator's Promise " because you speak in his name and make of fool of him when "His promise" fails. This is the very definition of "false Prophesy". But you don't care about that, and you don't care about what the Bible says about it - you just care about maintaining your way of life as a follower of the Society, so you defend them no matter how much you have compromise yourself, as does Debator. In this, you are exactly like the members of 'Christendom' you deride.
You said: A past mistaken viewpoint does not have indefinite implications for Jehovah's Organization.
Really? Actually it must, because if, as the Society claims, past accurate viewpoints earned them the place once and for all as "God's Organization", then past "mistaken viewpoints" must also be capable of disqualifying them - just as they claim it disqualified every other religion.
And so, this False Prophesying, especially that which took place at the very same time as what you call "God's Organization" was supposedly chosen as such, is vitally important .
You can't act as a false prophet, issuing repeated false predictions in God's name AND AT THE SAME TIME be chosen as "God's Organization".
You can't be appointed, in 1919, as "The Faithful Slave" AND AT THE SAME TIME get the slave's identity wrong, 'worship' (the WT's word) a single man as 'The Slave', and claim he was appointed decades before 1914.
You can't give "Food at the proper time" AND AT THE SAME TIME have your timing be inaccurate by 40 years and preach totally improper "times" for everything, such as 1874.
You can't be the "Wise Virgin", "awake" at the time of the "Master's Arrival" who "hears the cry" when he arrives - in 1919 - AND AT THE SAME TIME preach as fact revealed by God that the Master arrived in 1874.
And because these things can't be true at the same time, because they can't be the "Faithful Slave" or the "Wise Virgins", they therefore CANNOT be "God's Organization". To claim otherwise makes an absurdity and a mockery of Scripture.
These facts sever the root of the Society and expose it's claims for authority - all stemming from 1914-1919 - as pure fantasy, and impossible, Scripturally speaking. So even if they did repent of their errors LATER (which as their attempts up to this day to slyly cover over those errors shows, is not the case) it still means that they could not have qualified THEN and consequently have no authority as the "Only true religion", "God's sole channel of communication" or "God's Organization" NOW.
So what are they? Just another man-made religion, error ridden and fallible, but with delusions and claims of grandeur and enough doctrine that you happen to agree with to impress you. That's all they are. That's what the facts show.
You said: If I was to follow your example and disband from the organization and later ask you why God has become illusionary, what would you tell me?
I'd say that if by leaving an Organization your "God has become illusory", then this shows that, in fact, your God was the Organization all along, even if you didn't realize it, and that you now need to recognize that and rectify it. I'd tell you that because your faith had been in an Organization and it's human leaders you have no real personal relationship with God or his Son, no root, and so of course, when that institution is no longer there to prop up your faith, your faith fails, because it was not well rooted, and you were walking "by sight". I'd say this former form of worship was not spiritual, but fleshly. I'd tell you that many people in the Bible had no large 'Organization' but they thrived on a direct spiritual relationship and I'd suggest you learn to do the same, and find others who do the same. There are many.
blondie
What's important is that we put our complete trust in Jehovah, Jesus and the Faithful Slave.
Creepy isn't it, how the "Faithful Slave" is now on equal footing with Jehovah and Jesus?
Actually, the creepiest part is that people have to go through the FDS to have a relationship with Jesus and God putting them higher.
*** w06 12/1 p. 11 Highlights From the Book of Isaiah—I ***We ‘see’ Jehovah and “hear” his voice of salvation by heeding what he says through his inspired Word, the Bible, and through “the faithful and discreet slave.”—Matthew 24:45.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/organization.php
- "To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12
Consfearacy

Every prophecy recorded in the Bible has some foundation. In every occurrence it was a divine revelation inspired from a supernatural source. It sometimes had a specific time fulfillment, multiple fulfillments. Examples; the revelation to John of Patmos (book of Revelation). Dream vision to king Nebuchadnezzar revealed by Daniel.
Indeed, as respects the date 1914, which we have emphasized, and respecting which we have repeatedly expressed our faith, our conviction--even respecting this date we have never knowingly spoken in infallible terms. June 1, 1913 Watchtower
We are waiting for the time to come when the government of the world will be turned over to the Messiah. We cannot say that it may not be either October 1914, or October 1915. It is possible that we might be out of the correct reckoning on the subject a number of years. We cannot say with certainty. October 15, 1913 Watchtower
Using this same measuring line, beginning with the entry of the children of Israel into Canaan, and counting the full 70 cycles of 50 years each, as clearly indicated by Jehovah’s sending of the Jews into Babylon for the full 70 years, it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee................Thus it was in 1844, in 1874, in 1878 as well as in 1914 and 1918. Looking back we can now easily see that those dates were clearly indicated in Scripture and doubtlessly intended by the Lord to encourage his people, as they did, as well as to be a means of testing and sifting when all that some expected did not come to pass. That all that some expect to see in 1925 may not transpire that year will not alter the date anymore than in the other cases. May 15, 1922 Watchtower
They left the door open to the possibility of unfulfillment and speaking in infallible terms means they didn't claim divine inspiration. How can 1925 even be deemed a false prophecy as they never claimed it was one nor does it fit the description of any prophecy recorded in the Bible? Does it better fit the description of keeping on the watch?
Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. Matthew 24:42
Essan

Consfearacy, you quoted :"Indeed, as respects the date 1914, which we have emphasized, and respecting which we have repeatedly expressed our faith, our conviction--even respecting this date we have never knowingly spoken in infallible terms". June 1, 1913 Watchtower"
This is an absolute, unmitigated LIE. I have already shown you the quotes with which they stated explicitly as fact that Armageddon would definitely come in 1914, and regarding their chronology - of which 1914 and 1925 were a central part - that it was of 'Divine Origin", "Of God", and "absolutely and unqualifiedly correct" etc., and that you should have seen such quotes and then posted this lying response by the Watchtower, as some imagined rebuttal, makes a deliberate liar of you too.
http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/1914.html
Yes, of course, as the dates for their predictions arose and drew close - or passed as in the case of the 1915 quote you gave - they started to lose their nerve and tried to inset the odd deceptive disclaimer from time to time with which to later try to worm their way out, but these are totally belied by the mountains of explicit, direct, insistent, and definite claims that certain events WOULD happen on certain dates, that these predictions were FROM GOD, and thus ABSOLUTELY SURE. They created hysteria in the Brothers for these dates, they encouraged them to live their lives around these dates, and make important and damaging life decisions based on them, they were insistent that these dates be believed - then as the time grew very close, or passed, they sometimes got scared and lied, trying to claim they "hadn't said for certain" - when their own literature shows this to be absolutely false! - and then - to add insult to injury - they tried to blame the very people they had mislead, claiming they had "read into it" and were wrongly motivated in "serving with dates in mind". the Society's behaviour was and is disgusting.
You are welcome to them C, it seems you are well suited, although I truly hope yours is a temporary blindness.
chrisjoel

Add to this that after every wrong date put forth, Bible Students, and JWs left in large numbers. If these had not been prophecies built upon by the Society where so many rested their hopes should you have seen a decrease in JWs?
Take 1975. After that fiasco, a few short yrs later in Brooklyn Bethel many started questioning their beliefs. Even the registrar of Gilead. .....
It is therefore a sleight of hand, is it not, to introduce quotes that indicate they werent placing all their marbles on specific dates...for ex back in
1922 they wrote : "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922) ! YIKES!!!!!!!!!
Essan

How about this Chris:
"Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89 1918).
Or,
"Lo, our King is here, and the year 1925 marks the date when all shall see His mighty power demonstrated in the resurrection of the ancient worthies, and the time when 'millions now living will never die'." - The Golden Age, March 1, 1922, p. 350
And regarding their predictions for Armageddon, the Rapture and Resurrection in 1925:
"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
Now, bear in mind Noah was told DIRECTLY BY GOD that the flood was coming. But the Society claims that the JW's had "MUCH MORE" to base their faith in the events predicted BY THE SOCIETY for 1925 than someone who had been directly told by God! Thus they claimed greater infallibility in their predictions than God's own word!
Astounding. Truly staggering.

"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925 .. What further evidence do we need? ...There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." - The Watchtower. May 15, 1922
"April 1st, 1925, at which time we may expect the resurrection of the Ancient Worthies" - Millions Now Living Will Never Die , 1925 p110.
April 1st - April fools day - how ironic. And what message does telling JW's "we may expect" and "we may confidently expect" send? "Go ahead! Feel free to CONFIDENTLY EXPECT Brothers!". Now compare this with their sudden twist and rebuke on those who actually listened to their words about what would happen in 1925 and "expected" as instructed , given in the same year:
"The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expecte d that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." - Watchtower 1925 January 1
Disgusting.
More 1925 quotes gathered by Undisfellowshipped here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/37072/1/ARMAGEDDON-IN-1925-TIMELINE-OF-QUOTES
chrisjoel

Essan : very very damning for sure! How can you build up so much excitment and then it all falls down like a deck of cards!
HOWEVER, personally, the most damning QUOTE i have ever read that effected me the most was something the Watchtower Society wrote about 1975. Since i did live thru 1975, and i remember going in service in 1976 with my father THIS REALLY punches me in the gut:
35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent.This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour"!
Watchtower 1968 August 15 pp.494-501 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?
What that says to me is Do NOT put your trust in Mathew 24;36!!!!!!!!!! LMAO! put your TRUST in a very very NEAR violent end to this world!
WTF!!!!!! excuse me????? Did you read that ! THey said essentially, FORGET about what the BIble says that no one knows the hour, NOPE , get it outta your head! Dont be messing around with that scripture!!!!But then at the end, we have the slight of hand move, as they say, well yes only the Father knows the day and hour....BUT THEY JUST FINISHED SAYING its not the time to toy around with Math 24;36! Confusing and doublespeak all at once.
How can any person who is honest have read THAT and still carry on the status quo? as if nothing happened?
Boggles my mind sometimes.
Mary

Consfearacy said: You feel justified in quoting from Deuteronomy 18:20-22 to identify a false prophet. Do you think it's justified to put an occultist to death for their religious practices? "You must not preserve a sorceress alive. Exodus 22:18
Yet another red herring argument from you. Occultists have nothing to do with this thread, so quit trying to change the subject you buffoon.
There are some who make spectacular predictions of the world's end to grab attention and a following, but others are sincerely convinced that their proclamations are true. They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah's name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters.
More bullshit tripe from the mind of a brainwashed Dub. I have already shown you from their own literature that it makes no difference if a person is "sincere" or not. In case you somehow manage to miss that thread, I'll post it for you again:
"No matter how sincere a person may be, presumptuousness and disobedience never win God's favor." December 15, 1983 Watchtower p. 6
"Hence, the courageous course is being adopted not in sincerity alone, but on the basis of reliable information, correct knowledge. And this under trustworthy guidance, better than the guidance of "valueless gods." The correctness of the course is proved by the fact that it was foretold in a prophecy that has turned out to be no lie but the truth." Watchtower December 15, 1972 p. 742 par. 5
"...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves." Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4
"Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan". Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154
"...Merely sincerely accepting and following a religious organization will not guarantee God's approval and protection through this world's end. Sincerity, conviction, or intensity of devotion will not change falsehood into truth..." Watchtower October 15, 1960 pp. 614-615
"...sincerity alone does not purify someone of wrong teachings..."Awake! February 2006 p. 13
"For our worship to be acceptable to God, sincerity is not only desirable but also essential. Yet, note that sincerity alone is not enough. It must be complemented with truth........For us to be acceptable to God, our sincere beliefs must be based on accurate information." Watchtower February 1, 2003 p. 32
"The man who wants to please God must be sincere. But sincerity alone does not make one's religion approved in God's eyes." Watchtower March 15, 1969 p. 166
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true." Watchtower 1991 December 1, p. 7
Is there any part of this you don't understand?

WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY?

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