TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped 457 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @mkr32208:

    Perhaps were you to continue your reading of this thread, you will notice a clear line being drawn between truth and fiction. For example, @UnDisfellowshipped has stated (in a related thread):

    * Each of the Three Persons is called "Jehovah" (or "Yahweh") and "God" in the Bible.

    * Jesus IS Jehovah, but He is NOT The Father or The Spirit.

    Adding to this and in contradiction to the above two "bullet points" as to @UnDisfellowshipped's explanation of the Trinity doctrine, @possible has stated the following (in another thread):

    In the Trinity doctrine, Jesus is not Jehovah.... When Jehovah IS Jesus, it is contradictory to that explanation "He is NOT The Father." "Jehovah" is the name of the father of Jesus.

    It is on page 5 of this thread that I begin to point out a few of the problems with the explanations posited by adherents of this doctrine, and I cannot promise that your head will not explode from my remarks or that of others in response to my remarks here, but I can promise you that you have never read better repartee on the subject of whether the NWT supports the Trinity doctrine that you will read in this thread, especially [email protected] and @peacedog.

    http://tinyurl.com/2339t4o

    @djeggnog

    I got all the way to page 4 before my head exploded from the stupidity and I added this little [gem] of a reply.

  • Titus
    Titus

    If I may add one curiosity:

    Matthew 12:15-21

    15 Jesus knew this and withdrew from the district. Many followed him and he cured them all 16 but warned them not to make him known. 17 This was to fulfil what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah:
    18 Look! My servant whom I have chosen,my beloved, in whom my soul delights,
    I will send my Spirit upon him,
    and he will present judgement to the nations;
    19 he will not brawl or cry out,
    his voice is not heard in the streets,
    20 he will not break the crushed reed,
    or snuff the faltering wick,
    21 until he has made judgement victorious;
    in him the nations will put their hope.

    Jerusalem Bible

    It is interesitng that in the Croatian version (approved by Roman Catholic Archibishop, and therefore - trinitarian) above this paragraph there is title: Jesus is "servant of God"

    But in one edition of the same version, there is title: Jesus is "servant of Yahweh"

    I can provide you scans of it. I don't think it is important in this debate, but it is interesting. Therefore - Jesus is servant of Jehovah, not Jehovah himself.

    Just my 2 lipa... (or 2 cents)

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @mkr32208:

    I got all the way to page 4 before my head exploded from the stupidity and I added this little [gem] of a reply.

    Perhaps were you to continue your reading of this thread, you will notice a clear line being drawn between truth and fiction. For example, @UnDisfellowshipped has stated (in a related thread):

    * Each of the Three Persons is called "Jehovah" (or "Yahweh") and "God" in the Bible.

    * Jesus IS Jehovah, but He is NOT The Father or The Spirit.

    And in contradiction to the above two "bullet points," @possible has stated (in another thread) the following as to @UnDisfellowshipped's explanation of the Trinity doctrine:

    In the Trinity doctrine, Jesus is not Jehovah.... When Jehovah IS Jesus, it is contradictory to that explanation "He is NOT The Father." "Jehovah" is the name of the father of Jesus.

    It is on page 5 of this thread that I begin to point out a few of the problems with the explanations posited by adherents of this doctrine, and I cannot promise that your head will not explode from my remarks or that of others in response to my remarks here, but I can promise you that you have never read better repartee on the subject of whether the NWT supports the Trinity doctrine that you will read in this thread, especially [email protected] and @peacedog.

    http://tinyurl.com/2339t4o

    @djeggnog

  • TD
    TD

    One question here (To both sides)

    When was the Son made superior to the angels?

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    TD When was the Son made superior to the angels?

    Philippians 2:5-11 (New International Version)

    5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
    7 but made himself nothing,
    taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    and became obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!
    9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    Hebrews 2:5-9 (New International Version)

    Jesus Made Like His Brothers
    5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
    "What is man that you are mindful of him,
    the son of man that you care for him?
    7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
    you crowned him with glory and honor
    8 and put everything under his feet."

    In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @Lady Lee:

    I'd appreciate your deleting my Post 71 for me, which I reposted in my Post 72, for if there is a way in which I could have deleted it myself, I was unable to find it! -- I've supposed that such a tool isn't available to me, ergo this request. tyvm

    @djeggnog

  • designs
    designs

    Subordinationism is difficult for the Western Churches but easy for the Eastern Rites...............and the Holy Ghost took the last train to the Coast

    Don McLean

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @TD:

    When was the Son made superior to the angels?

    On the third day after his death, Resurrection Day, Nisan 16, 33 AD (Saturday/Sunday), April 5, 33 AD, Julian, April 3, 33 AD, Gregorian, at which time God not only raised Jesus from the dead, but endowed him bodily with the fullness of the divine quality -- immortality -- which along with his having been seated at God's right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, God at that time also appointed Jesus as head of the body, his congregation.

    Additionally, God had made Jesus "a little lower than angels" (or "godlike ones" [Psalm 8:5]) for 33-1/2 years, but after he had suffered death for the sake of mankind, God also made Jesus superior to the angels in that He subjected all things, the things in the heavens and the things in the earth, under Jesus' feet, which included the angels, but excluded "the one who subjected all things to [Jesus]," namely Jehovah God. (Hebrews 2:7-9; Ephesians 1:8-10; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28)

    In fact, after their resurrection, God will likewise endow bodily those of Jesus' body with the fullness of the divine nature, making the 144,000 adopted sons of God superior to the angels also. This is consistent with what the apostle Paul wrote at 1 Corinthians 6:3 as to their roles as judges in the heavenly kingdom of God, which roles the members of Christ's body will assume once all of them have been resurrected, and have been installed as kings and priests under Christ: "Do you not know that we shall judge angels?" (Ephesians 1:20-22; Colossians 1:18) Although having the divine nature themselves, the angelic sons of god do not possess bodily the fullness of the divine quality, for they are all mortal gods, but Jesus and those of his body will each of them be Gods having immortality, all of them holding a rank superior than that held by any of the angels.

    @djeggnog

  • Podobear
    Podobear

    @ Peacedog: I have already thanked you for clarifying your thought on Psalm 110 and congratulate you that agree that Jesus is NOT the YHWH of the Old Testament. Your thoughts on Revelation 3:7-12 ... I seem to have missed them. Perhaps you could rise above the sarcasm and elucidate. Thanks.

    @djeggnog: Your last posting was an excellent and concise summary. Thank you. You will find that "Born Again" lurkers and Trinitarian sympathisers like Chalam, will spin around the same dozen or so passages of Scripture which have been transliterated to read in English with bias towards their Satanic/Pagan doctrine. The Bible everywhere else is very clear, even as Titus (the Poster) has pointed out in his native Croatian... that Jesus is the SERVANT of Jehovah.

    Equally you will find these very same Trinitarian sympathizers avoiding the answers to very simple and honest requests for explanation of the rest of scripture. They feel safe in their comfort zone and will not even acknowledge the hard hitting facts of "DE TRINITAS ERRORIBUS" and the blatant bastardization of the original text by twisted servants, especially in the courts of King James (KJV)!!

    That is why they murdered the Arian sympathizers and adopted the mantras of the Athanasian creed at the behest of an Evil convert called Constantine (check out the miracle of his conversion - it was hardly on the road to Damascus).

    Podo

  • peacedog
    peacedog

    eggnog:

    Still waiting:

    You failed to respond to a question in my previous post. You quoted the KJV at which point I asked you to explain the words "at any time":

    5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

    Again, please explain the meaning of "at any time" in the above statements.

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