Just Heard Some Shocking News

by jookbeard 106 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • besty

    What David said. Porter was dealt with - nobody disputes that. <well some people think he should have gone to prison for a lot longer, but thats besides the point>, which bears repeating:

    The issue here is not Jooks safety, but that the WTBTS have a culture and policies that are misaligned with what is best for protecting children from abusers.

    There are JW elders molesting children in the UK right now - you and I both know that. And when they get caught they will be dealt with. Thats not the point.

    The point is that [religious authority given to untrained men + the 2 witness rule + a 'spiritual paradise' + the head of a woman is the man + don't sue your brother in court + don't allow Jehovah's name to be dragged through the mud + a ministry that primarily attracts the vulnerable = a pedophile paradise]

    The correct procedures for dealing with alleged molesters after the fact (ie call the cops, dumbasses) may now be in place, and may be adhered to by some of the people some of the time.

    The underlying cultural problems that create the environment for the perverts to operate successfully aren't going away anytime soon - despite the best intentions of the 'good' elders, such as your dad, to deal with the fallout.

    <in answer to your question I have not read the legal bundle>

  • Podobear

    Neither have I read it Besty... but instead of invoking Anarchy why not commend the actions of my Dad (of whom I am very proud) to turn this ship around.

    This is an individual case, it is up for review.. maybe all the worms will be winkled out of the can. You should be supporting our mutual friend Jook'.. any antagonism at this point would be seen as a disruption of the law as defined here in the UK. Our personal opinions are off the wall here.. and tinkering with the law of this land is not the way to approach it.

    Please contact the addresses I have provided... I sense that Bill Bowen will have done so anyway. An earthquake does need to go through Watchtower Land, as indeed it does in all sectors of Society. How many "secular" trained Elders are there to comment.. Is the WT Society working in the background to firm up its policy.

    I repeat, the Elders were praised for their co-operation with the Secular Authorities.. lessons are being learned.. I hope the WT goes from strength to strength in reform in many areas. That is why I am sitting here, that is why I am chipping in with you ... and that is why I maintain it would be absolute folly at this stage for Jook' to cross the legal line... even if WE don't agree with it.

    All the best. Podo

  • besty

    I'm not invoking anarchy - I think you are reading my words and completely missing my point.

    The elders - aka Independent Agents - are a mixed bag. Some good, some bad, mostly untrained in matters of abuse allegations.

    You seem blind to the institutional reasons why pedophiles thrive amongst JW's and other similar groups:

    The point is that [religious authority given to untrained men + the 2 witness rule + a 'spiritual paradise' + the head of a woman is the man + don't sue your brother in court + don't allow Jehovah's name to be dragged through the mud + a ministry that primarily attracts the vulnerable = a pedophile paradise]

    I should have added 'wait on Jehovah' to the above formula.....

    If you think well meaning elders, such as your dad, can fix this one congregation at a time, well ...good luck with that.

    The elders may be praised for cooperating with the cops - that seems like praising a college student for knowing the alphabet - its still praise...but...really? Having a correctly implemented policy of cooperation AFTER THE FACT should be a given, not a source of pride.

    My premise is that the WTBTS is systemically incapable of dismantling the pedophile paradise as it would require them to dismantle too many other core philosophies - see formula above. It is beyond their DNA range.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

    Wait for a huge legal case to force them towards putting children's welfare ahead of their 'faithful and discreet slave' mythology. Or wait on Jehovah.

    Meanwhile the Michael Porters continue to operate.

  • Podobear

    Besty.. I did not come here to challenge your basis for wanting a massive change in WT world. I came here out of concern for Jook'. You can bare as much bad news as you like. The facts remain.

    This case was heard 3 years ago, Jook has only just picked up on it.

    It all happened within a few miles of where I live and now it has landed fully on Jook's doorstep.

    There is public outcry over the decision rendered by the presiding judge, and the case is subject to protracted judicial review.

    To cross the "legal" line at this stage would endanger Jook'. "What if" is a big supposition. We have to await the judicial review, and show all due dilligence in handling these matters.

    I am sure Bill Bowen and others like yourself are contacting Avon & Somerset Police and the Bristol CPS, as we speak to speed up the rule of law. Anything outside this is Anarchy.

    Again, I stress, I agree, much must be changed systemically to change the WT mindset in these matters. Or, would you be found pushing others to cross the legal line?

    Wait Besty, things are in motion.. all will come out of the woodwork.. and if you are wise enough to know the law.. put your case forward with Bill Bowen and see this through to resolution.

    All that I am saying is wait... whether on Jehovah or not... I believe the Truth will come out and their will be much gnashing of teeth in one quarter or another. Stick up for Jook'... don't use him as a stool pigeon Besty.. he is not up to speed. He admitted that at the first posting.

  • besty

    What is this legal line nonsense?

    I'm not sure what I've said that explicitly or by implication indicated I was going to 'cross the legal line', or was encouraging others to do so.

    Maybe you can help me out with that?

    And as for me working with Bill Bowen or anyone else on this case or any other similar case - no - I'm not.

  • jamiebowers
    There is no need to be nasty, jamie.. that is not the point of my post. I AGREE with the observations Besty has made. I am not willing to accept Cantleave's offbeat comment about ignoring UK law.

    I wasn't being nasty...just citing the facts and asking a question. Jook or any other adult has nothing to fear for exposing a pedophile. Child molesters are cowards...that's why they pick on kids. Like rats and roaches, vermin like that flee when the light is shined on them.

  • KW13

    Shocking really, because while at the moment he's being left to his own devices there is nothing to stop him reoffending and the Kingdom Hall will one day provide him with an opportunity if it hasn't done already to abuse a child or children.

  • cantleave

    Pod, You call my comment off beat.

    I am saying that this should not be allowed anywhere near children. At present the UK law puts people like this on the sex offenders register. Part of the reason for this is stop dispicable people like Michael Porter from working with children ?(and vulnerable adults).

    There is a register in the KH of people who are a danger to children, but this is kept in with the "specialised Shepherding" file, which deals with all the other reproofs and DFings etc. It is not used to protect children, although it does prevent those on the list being appointed as elders or MS. The issue is the "Brothers" on this list can still mingle freely with children in the congregation, they can still go out in FS and conduct home bible studies (they couldn't undertake such roles on the Sex offenders register) and the majority of the congregation do not know of the danger they present.

    My comment was not off beat but informed. Probably more so than most other people who have commented on this thread.

  • wobble

    Thanks Cantleave, I know that your experience gives you the ability to inform us properly.

    As Besty is saying, and I have been saying on many a thread, the average Kingdom Hall is a Paedophile Paradise, and this is so because they do not have a Child and Vulnerable Person action programme in place. A policy is just a piece of paper, what is imperative is that the uncaring ,complacent JW's be forced to put some true Protection in place.

    As I have said elsewhere, they should have someone at each meeting who is responsible for making sure that young and vulnerable people are not able to get in to a situation of danger. (A minor can be an abuser too, we had a case in my old Congo. nasty little pervert.)

    Adults should not use areas, such as toilet facilities when young people do and so on.

    I belong to a small sports club that puts all this, and more, into practice.

    Why cannot the WT insist their Congregations protect such people as need it ?

    They deserve to have huge case brought against them to wake them up.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I would like to address the concepts of "repentance" and "turning around" and "forgiveness."

    This is a deviant mental condition that can certainly induce a LOT of remorse because it is such a heinous act. That said, remorse and "saying sorry" doesn't change what was done and in this type of deviance it does NOT change the liklihood of repeating the crime.

    Can therapy?

    If it can, where are all the success stories? Where are all the "I Was a 20-Something Pedophile!" bestsellers with the proceeds going to both victims and furthering of successful pedo-therapy? Where are the magazine articles profiling the long-term recovery of pedophiles due to successful therapy? Yeah, there is a powerful stigma attached and naturally most would be reluctant to expose their past in such a way, but if pedophile recovery was commonplace we'd hear both the recovered pedophiles and therapists tooting their horns all the time and in all places.

    If recovery was commonplace (or even occasional) one would expect that therapists would have a good number of proven recovered pedophiles to hold up as examples. Where are they?

    So there isn't a cure for pedophelia (or at least there clearly isn't a widespread and nearly foolproof one that anyone's heard of). Therefore, one can't say that he "used to be" a pedophile. One IS a pedophile. There IS NO turning around without constant lifetime supervision to enforce proper behavior.

    Is there? If so, lets have some links. If not, then can you expect forgiveness for one who hasn't changed? Does the fact that he can't really matter?

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