Reports of Jesus' (death or resurrection) may have been later?

by Terry 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I wish I had this information when I was 12 -16 years old. back in the 60l's.

    Maybe I did, maybe we knew the gospels were written long after the fact back then but it wasnt registering.

    For any one who doesnt want to believe in the bible or Jesus there is plenty of evidence.

    I'm just not sure how much truth and reality I need at 58 years old 28 years out of the tower.

    And not a church goer or affiliated with any churh or religion.

    How badly do I have to know I'm coming down the home stretch alone?

    Wait a minute, I just realized I have been a lone the whole trip.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Terry,

    Of course I forgot to mention the recently deceased Michael Goulder. For example, the following is part of:

    http://homepages.which.net/~radical.faith/guide/liturgical%20jesus.htm

    Doug

    ===========

    Briefly, [Michael Goulder] proposed that the gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke were never intended to be accounts of what Jesus did and said during his life.

    First, they were constructed as collections of illustrative stories, intended to convey the meaning of Jesus in terms of God's action in the world. In other words, they were theological statements closely connected to a catechetical function. As such, they would have been loosely rather than directly associated with the theology of Paul of Tarsus. Whereas Paul was a Jew working primarily in a non-Jewish context, the Gospels of Mark and Matthew were most probably linked with Jewish Christians. Luke's Gospel may have been the work of a convert to Judaism. (But note the word "may", which indicates a guess here, as in most scholarly works.)

    Second, says Goulder, the Gospels were assembled by their authors primarily for use in worship as liturgical readings. This use would, I think, most likely have been intended also as a teaching aid. Just as the Muslim youth of today still learn the Koran by heart, so did Jewish young people in the time of Jesus and the first Jewish-Christian communities learn the Jewish scriptures. They would, I think, almost certainly have quickly tried to assemble a Christian counterpart to the Jewish scriptures as they gradually broke away from official Jewry.

  • read good books
    read good books
    That isn't faith so much as it is credulity.

    Wel nol I was responding to your statement about breaking up Jesus life from his reserrection.

    I am not saying I can prove what's in the Bible, I am just saying if you accept that Jesus lived what else do you accept, that he fullfilled the old testament phrophecies? If you take it that far that he performed miracles, that their were many eyewitness to that? Faith to me is just that faith.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    R G B,

    The point of the miracles is not whether they actually occurred or not, but what they meant. Each miracle gave messages to the people at that time, and are equally meaningful today. There is too much to the subject to cover here, and I suggest one book you can look at (Google Books allows a preview) is:

    "The Meaning in the Miracles" by Jeffrey John (ISBN 1-85311-434-0). It's not an expensivebook and I am certain would not upset your faith, but deepen it.

    The BBC had a good TV program touching on the topic of Jesus' miracles, presented by Rageh Omaar, and based on the book "The Miracles of Jesus" by Michael Symmons Roberts (ISBN 0745951945). I have not seen the book, only the TV show.

    Doug

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    If we take what the "illustrious" Terry has suggested to it's most logical conclusion, then we can dismiss all of history prior to the invention of the still camera. Congratulations, Terry! I wish you were in charge back when I was in school, then I wouldn't have had to memorize all those dates for which we ONLY have written records.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    The Romans just thought Jesus was another "Dying God" cult.

    Attis, Adonis, Tammuz, Dionysus, Osiris, the mediterranean world had these religions, all of them claimed that their God founded it, died, and then rose from the dead.

    The cult of Mithra the bull actually declared the birth of its God to a virgin, in December, over 200 years before Christ. It is not just coincidence.

    Unfortunately the mediaeval Church eliminated many of the sources the early christians plagiarised.

    HB

    As for the Bible - the more I read it, the more I find the invisible being who inspired it to be a revolting psychopath.

    (who will kill us unless we tell him how wonderful and all powerful and gracious he is)

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR
    The cult of Mithra the bull actually declared the birth of its God to a virgin, in December, over 200 years before Christ. It is not just coincidence.

    Ah yes, the old Christ as copied from Mithras tale. Have you really looked into this, or are you simply parotting what you have heard?

    First, Mithras was born from rock and emerged from a cave with the assistance of shepherds (interestingly shepherds exist in Mithras' birth account in a time when people did NOT exist according to the mythology!). Now I don't know about you, but I would hardly call a rock a virgin. Secondly, the first appearance of this particular legend occurs about 100 years after the emergence of Christianity. I don't know about you, but that sounds like Mithraism copied Christianity to me.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    EXJW -

    NO I am not parrotting what Ihave merely heard. This is a subject that fascinates me and I have spent the last thirty years reading and researching.

    This is in stark contrast to "born Again" fundamantalist "christians" who sit in a church singing and clapping, then think they are saved, because they feel a surge of mob emotion, with no research or thought needed.

    I rather envy those on this board who have an unshakable faith. It must be a great comfort.

    Unfortunately when I went on my knees and begged Jesus to save me, nothing happened. God is no fool - he knew I was trying a cynical ploy to save my own ass.

    HB

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    As for eyewitness testimony -

    Why should what a few Jewish nomads, or ecstasy- crazed christians claim pass as "eye-witness testimony" any more than the accounts in other sacred texts? Every one of the miracles in the Bible is replicated in other faiths.

    Why should we give greater credibility to one repository of ignorant superstition over another?

    To me, this strikes to the racist supremacist core of the Judeo-christian faith. A faith that worships a God who is racist, and genocidal.

    HB

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    XJW -

    I see no reason to doubt that Mithras emerged from a rock, any more than the virgin birth, or Cronos pulling his son out of his own head.

    These are articles of faith, and as such do not depend upon proof by logic or concrete evidence.

    HB

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