Library Visit # 2: 607 BCE vs. 587 BCE - With Pictures!

by mentallyfree31 113 Replies latest watchtower bible


    "Alice, watch out! He may well have made extensive study into new Babylonian chronology, but his analyses and conclusions are flawed on the most basic of levels! While on the surface they look scholarly and well-researched - especially to those unknowledgeable about the subject - actually when his claims and 'facts' are checked (and there is a LOT to check) you are faced with numerous, and often astonishing, mistakes and inconsistencies."

    Common sense can be used to substantiate the fact that God's Kingdom as a visible organization ended before the foretold messiah appeared in the first century CE. The corruption of the Pharisees and Sadducees indicated they obviously weren't servants of God.

    When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “you offspring of vipers, who has intimated to you to flee from the coming wrath? So then produce fruit that befits repentance; and do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham. Matthew 3:7-9

    Moving forward a bit: During the Dark Ages no one could teach anything outside what was official church doctrine without being burned at the stake or tortured by the Inquisition.

    Biblical truth couldn't be revived until sometime after the Church was stripped of its power.

    Often referred to as “the morning star of the Reformation,” John Wycliffe (1324 - December 1384) was a Catholic priest and a professor of theology at Oxford, England. Well aware of the abuses in the church, he wrote and preached against such matters as corruption in the monastic orders, papal taxation, the doctrine of transubstantiation (the claim that the bread and wine used in the Mass literally change into the body and blood of Jesus Christ), the confession, and church involvement in temporal affairs.

    Wycliffe was particularly outspoken when it came to the church’s neglect in teaching the Bible. Once he declared: “Would to God that every parish church in this land had a good Bible and good expositions on the gospel, and that the priests studied them well, and taught truly the gospel and God’s commands to the people!” To this end, Wycliffe, in the last years of his life, undertook the task of translating the Latin Vulgate Bible into English. With the help of his associates, particularly Nicholas of Hereford, he produced the first complete Bible in the English language.

    All of this, of course, did not go unnoticed by the church. The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe (on 4 May 1415) a stiff-necked heretic and under the ban of the Church. Because of his prominence among the ruling and scholarly classes, Wycliffe was allowed to die in peace on the last day of 1384. It was decreed that his books be burned and his remains be exhumed. His followers were less fortunate. During the reign of Henry IV of England, they were branded as heretics, and many of them were imprisoned, tortured, or burned to death.

    Galileo Galilei,the famous Italian astronomer and physicist was one of the most noted victims of the inquisition. A letter in which he attempted to demonstrate the Copernican theory, that the Earth is not the center of the universe, was forwarded by some of his enemies to the inquisitors in Rome. He was tried in 1633 and found guilty of heresy. He was forced to recant (publicly withdraw his statement) and was sentenced to life imprisonment under house arrest.

    In 1979, Pope John Paul II declared that the Roman Catholic Church "may have been mistaken in condemning him," and he established a commission to study the case.

    In 1993, the Catholic Church "officially" pardoned Galileo. In other words, they forgave him for teaching that the planets revolve around the Sun, not the Earth.

    I think it's obvious that truth was/is not their goal. Others have actually gone further in their assessments of medieval churches:


    Our precious Savior never ordered anyone to be slaughtered for any reason, especially for hardness of heart against His message, nor for disagreeing with Him on spiritual matters.

    As the Inquisition rolled along, demonic spirit swept through the Church and the people carrying out the Inquisition. This spirit was a spirit of absolute, diabolical hatred of mankind, accompanied by a corresponding love of torture.

    Therefore, the monstrosity of the Inquisition stands before mankind as the ultimate evidence of the inherent Satanism of the Roman Catholic Church.

    For those who have the courage to examine this ultimate "rotten fruit", they will see the truth of the Catholic Church. And do not think Rome has changed, for the Bible tells us that a Leopard does not change its spots [Jeremiah 13:23], and Rome is always bragging that she never changes. A concrete proof of this fact is that Pope Paul VI (1963-1978) restored the Office of the Inquisition, renamed today as the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ["Lives of the Popes", by Richard P. McBrien, HarperSanFrancisco, 1997, p. 282, 354].

    Today, this nefarious Office of the Inquisition is headed by Cardinal Ratzinger.

    It was (outside secular sources) the Age of Enlightenment and constitutional monarchies that put an end to the Dark Ages, not church officials. This paved the way for the restoration of God's visible organization. Using the Bible, secular resources and common sense, the early Bible students pinpointed the end of the gentile times.

    “It was in B.C. 606, that God’s kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B.C. 606, will end in A.D. 1914.” —The Three Worlds, published in 1877, page 83.

    It's been well established that secular history does not contain the same interlocking harmony found in the Bible. If a person chooses to allow discrepancies between certain aspects of history and the Bible to obscure the truth found in God's Word, that's a personal choice. The honest thing to do is to establish truth elsewhere before pursuing this course.

  • yknot
    How did they arrive at 606 BCE in the first place? Did history at one time make this claim? What is the origin?


    I remember reading an AlanF comment about it

    I will do some searching and find the thread...

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    How did they arrive at 606 BCE in the first place? Did history at one time make this claim? What is the origin?

    Try this from Alan

  • yknot

    I found the thread and AlanF mentions the chronology being in the Sept 1875 Herald.....

    However the first person to assert was John Aquila Brown in his 1823 book 'Even-tide'.

  • yknot

    Blondie on that previous thread pointed to :

    Proclaimers book chap.10pp.134-135GrowinginAccurateKnowledgeoftheTruth/EndoftheGentileTimes

    The matter of Bible chronology had long been of great interest to Bible students. Commentators had set out a variety of views on Jesus? prophecy about "the times of the Gentiles" and the prophet Daniel?s record of Nebuchadnezzar?s dream regarding the tree stump that was banded for "seven times."?Luke 21:24, KJ; Dan. 4:10-17.

    As early as 1823, John A. Brown, whose work was published in London, England, calculated the"seventimes"ofDanielchapter4tobe2,520yearsinlength. But he did not clearly discern the date with which the prophetic time period began or when it would end. He did, however, connectthese"seventimes"withtheGentileTimesofLuke21:24. In 1844, E. B. Elliott, a British clergyman, drew attention to 1914asapossibledate for the end of the "seven times" of Daniel, but he also set out an alternate view that pointed to the time of the French Revolution. Robert Seeley, of London, in 1849, handled the matter in a similar manner. At least by 1870, a publication edited by Joseph Seiss and associates and printed in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was setting out calculations that pointedto1914asasignificantdate, even though the reasoning it contained was based on chronology that C. T. Russell later rejected.

    Then, in the August, September, and October 1875 issues of HeraldoftheMorning, N. H. Barbour helped to harmonize details that had been pointed out by others. Using chronology compiled by Christopher Bowen, a clergyman in England, and published by E. B. Elliott, Barbour identified thestartoftheGentileTimeswithKingZedekiah?sremovalfromkingshipasforetoldatEzekiel21:25,26, and he pointed to 1914asmarkingtheendoftheGentileTimes.

    Early in 1876, C. T. Russell received a copy of HeraldoftheMorning. He promptly wrote to Barbour and then spent time with him in Philadelphia during the summer, discussing, among other things, prophetic time periods. Shortly thereafter, in an article entitled "Gentile Times: When Do They End?", Russell also reasoned on the matter from the Scriptures and stated that the evidence showed that "the seven times will end in A.D. 1914." This article was printed in the October 1876 issue of the BibleExaminer. The book ThreeWorlds,andtheHarvestofThisWorld, produced in 1877 by N. H. Barbour in cooperation with C. T. Russell, pointed to the same conclusion. Thereafter, early issues of the WatchTower, such as the ones dated December 1879 and July 1880, directed attention to 1914 C.E. as being a highly significant year from the standpoint of Bible prophecy. In 1889 the entire fourth chapter of Volume II of MillennialDawn (later called StudiesintheScriptures) was devoted to discussion of "The Times of the Gentiles." But what would the end of the Gentile Times mean?

  • wannabefree

    Gracias ... I will check this out ... but you are saying, 606 BCE was used as a date only by ones trying to fit Bible prophecy? No tie at all with known history?


    "Show some proof, tablets or manuscripts that may make us see that your calculation can even add up, don't try to discredit entire world of historians because you claim to be God's people and you just know better, which means shit to everyone outside of your cult."

    I did show proof:

    Bible or secular chronology for Jerusalem's destruction: which are you more inclined to believe?

    It's up to you to do the math. What about the calculations do you not understand if you need tutoring.

    What religion isn't a cult in your book may I ask?

  • thetrueone

    It was (outside secular sources) the Age of Enlightenment and constitutional monarchies that put an end to the Dark Ages, not church officials. This paved the way for the restoration of God's visible organization. Using the Bible, secular resources and common sense, the early Bible students pinpointed the end of the gentile times.

    Many have tried this non-biblical calculation and failed, see what happens when you interpret beyond what is written in the

    bible. Even at that if JC said he would give to his FDSL a time of his return, it would weigh in favor to the WTS and anyone else.....he didn't,

    in spite the End Times Prophecy .

    Oh well , if this return doesn't happen in the future, the GB just bought themselves a few more decades with this

    New Generation teaching, they will be long dead before someone else has to answer to WHY NOTHING HAPPENED ?

    In the mean time more literature will be produced with these pretentious false claims and people

    will be suckered into them just like in the past.

  • thetrueone

    It's up to you to do the math. What about the calculations do you not understand if you need tutoring.

    What this brain trust (AIW) is suggesting is taking the known fact of Cyrus's overthrow of Babylon (539 BCE.),

    minus the 70 years of the prophetic prophecy and you come to 607 BCE.

    Opps wait a second we have a problem, Nebuchadnezzar didn't come to power until 605 BCE. upon the death of his father.

    So maybe the captivity didn't last 70 prophetic years after all.......shoot !

    Hey I thought the bible was the word of god or at least inspired by god.

    Its funny how these discreet fibs and stories of embellishment never coincide with facts and reality in the real world outside

    of spiritualistic mysticism. I must be too analytical for fictionalized fantasy

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    What religion isn't a cult in your book may I ask?

    Wouldn't it be more effective to trash this thread by showing that the pics are faked?



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