New CO talk: Be loyal to Org. even if you get weird instructions or can prove them wrong doctrinally!

by sir82 89 Replies latest jw friends

  • sir82
    sir82

    Theme was something about "Loyalty to Jehovah's visible organization".

    I have neither the time nor inclination to summarize the whole thing, but a few points stood out:

    1) Be loyal to visible org. even if it causes you personal hardship

    Example: Joshua & Caleb returned from spy trip to promised land with good report, but were "outvoted" by the other 10 spies. Jehovah punished the faithless Israelites by forcing them to wander in wilderness for 40 years. Joshua & Caleb were right all along, but stuck with "Jehovah's organization" even though they suffered the penalty as well, through no fault of their own.

    2) Be loyal to visible org. even if you get difficult-to-understand instructions

    Example: After Israelites crossed Jordan river, but prior to attacking Jericho, Jehovah commanded all uncircumcised Israelites to get clipped. Seemed like very poor strategy -- they needed several days to recover, and were extremely vulnerable, being trapped between flood-stage river and hostile city. But they did it anyway, and Jericho did not attack - Jehovah protected them.

    3) Be loyal to visible org. even if you know they are wrong

    Example 1: 1st century "governing body" told Paul to ceremonially cleanse self before talking to Jews. He must have known it wouldn't work, and in fact it didn't work, as they tried to kill him & he had to appeal to Caesar. But that opened the way for him to give a witness in Rome. The 1st century "governing body" weren't thinking "what's the best way to get Paul to Rome", but it worked out that way - Jehovah used them to accomplish his will.

    Example 2: During World War I, the WT did not promote a strong neutrality position, told Bible Students to "follow conscience" with regard to supporting war efforts. Some Bible Students knew this was wrong, and broke away. But soon after breaking away, they "faded and came to nothing." Eventually, by 1939, the organization got it right and published a series of WT articles on the importance of strict neutrality.

    Sir82's comments: Wow! Simultaneously scary and puzzling. Scariest of all was the counsel, not only to blindly obey instructions you "don't understand", but to obey even if it will definitely cause you to suffer. I've never heard anything so explicit.

    Also, I found it highly unusual that they would even hint that they might be wrong on some things. Of course, that was mitigated by the sheer gall of requiring absolute obedience anyway - "yeah, we might be wrong, but Jehovah is using us, so obey us anyway."

    The target seemed to be people who were growing sick of the flip-flops and the endless boring treadmill of JW routine - trying to get them to stick around anyway. It wasn't exactly highly motivating, at least not to me - I'll see what reaction others have as I get a chance to talk to them.

    Comments?

  • awildflower
    awildflower

    WTF Excuse the language but if that doesn't sound cultish then I don't know what else does. That's exactly how Jim Jones got everyone to drink the coolade. Got parents to kill their children. Good Lord, will it ever end? Will people ever wake up!!

  • babygirl30
    babygirl30

    WOW! REading that just flashed all these different 'rules' in my mind that JWs are expected to live by and NEVER question - and it makes me so happy I'm OUT of that environment now.

  • Soldier77
    Soldier77

    If they come right out and say, "Be loyal to visible org. even if you know they are wrong" I'm done, no slow fade, just stand up and walk out the front door. If anyone of my "friends" or family still want to stay in and shun me for taking my stand against hypocrisy, so be it.

    Our CO visit is in 2 weeks. I'm starting the count down. Thanks for the heads-up post, this should be interesting.

  • undercover
    undercover

    I've heard the Joshua and Caleb shit before. In fact, an elder used it on me on a sheparding call when I first started openly questioning things. J&C could have left the camp and gone on their own way but their dedication to Jehovah caused them to stay because they knew that ultimately Jehovah would deliver them.

    This is a particularly evil MO, because on the surface it is convincing and it works. Most people new to questioning and doubting have either not developed critical thinking skills or have not used them in so long they've forgotten how, so when this material is presented it halts that rebellious thinking in it's tracks.

    There are numerous flaws in the J&C theory/story, but when presented by the CO in a KH setting, all thinking ceases and you accept it at face value.

    This talk does make it seem that they know they're losing people and they're getting desperate to try to control the masses.

    "Obey us even when we're wrong" Wow...

  • metatron
    metatron

    Let me say this plainly: Greed. That's what's at work here - the overwhelming greediness of the Governing Body, not for money (although they need that) but greediness to dominate and control people, no matter what.

    This is not the first time this C.O. talk subject has popped up recently. After this, what's the next move? Hysteria?

    metatron

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech
    Some Bible Students knew this was wrong, and broke away. But soon after breaking away, they "faded and came to nothing."

    what does this proove? 2 wrongs do not make a right, logical fallacy!

    i'm already bombing little stuff to my wife weekly, i'm having it!

    how can anyone exercise faith a religion where you gotta be there every meeting in order to get the latest reversal in teachings?

  • babygirl30
    babygirl30

    Soldier77 If they come right out and say, "Be loyal to visible org. even if you know they are wrong" I'm done, no slow fade, just stand up and walk out the front door.

    REALLY???? THAT take cojones! If I saw that - someone just get up and storm out the Khall - my eyes would bug out and I would seriously be nosey enough to follow you and ask you WHY! That is TOO cool!!!

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Scariest of all was the counsel, not only to blindly obey instructions you "don't understand", but to obey even if it will definitely cause you to suffer. I've never heard anything so explicit.

    Pass the Kool-Aid. Don't forget the cyanide.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    3) Be loyal to visible org. even if you know they are wrong

    Anyone who is not under the influence of Thought Reform will easily recognize how insane and unethical this truly is.

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