BTS, Tec, Hey, spiritual leaders are a dime a dozen- the really good ones ride on a donkey and eat honey & locusts- you have to watch out for the ones like the Bagwhan who had 27 Rolls Royce automobiles. However, when a spiritual leader claims to be the Son of God, they should expect to provide proof that matches their claims, don't you agree? -verifiable proof, that is, not 2nd and 3rd hand oral stories.
Stephen Hawking knows more about heaven than Jesus did.
by moshe 124 Replies latest social current
-
awildflower
Allow me to talk to you of the grandious universe with its physical constants, its super novas, black holes, multiple suns and beautiful nebulas !
Ok let's start with something simpler than:
Instead showing people the healing power of clay and spit, he could have shown everyone how to make aspirin from willow bark or that leprosy was an infectious disease, not the result of sin. Instead of worrying about money changers, he could have told everyone how to overcome disease through proper sanitation and diet. Sailor's scurvy could have been cured by Jesus, if only he had told everyone that disease could be cured by eating fruit and certain vegetables. Jesus either had supernatural knowledge and deliberately kept it from humans, for whatever reason, or he was basically something else.
-
Deputy Dog
I have been watching the Discovery Channel's, 'Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking' and it occurred to me that Professor Hawking knows more about heaven (which is just part of entire universe) than Jesus did.
You know this how? Because, you've been there?
-
PSacramento
awildflower,
I understand what you mean and one can indeed wonder why Jesus didn't do more, why he didn't leave cures why he didn't just take over and lead us to a better way of life, one can wonder why he didnt just rule Us, take the perverbial reins in his hands and take control to save us from ourselves.
One can also ask where we would h ave drawn the line, I mean, where would YOU draw the line on how much "Jesus" was too much? where would I? where would the rest of the millions and million of people then and the billions NOW, draw the line?
Those examples are fine ones and also show that we didn't really need Jesus to show us how to fix THOSE problems and in reality, we don't need Jesus to fix ANY of the problems that we can fix ourselves, do we?
-
Judge Dread
However, when a spiritual leader claims to be the Son of God, they should expect to provide proof that matches their claims, don't you agree? -verifiable proof, that is, not 2nd and 3rd hand oral stories.
So if Jesus explained, in the 1st century, what Professor Hawking has to say about these things in the 21st century, you would be satisifed?
Judge Dread
-
moshe
you know this how? Because, you've been there?
Nope, never been to a spiritual place commonly called called 'heaven', never died, had an out-of-body experience, seen the tunnel of light, talked to the dead and then come back to life. But I think that is what happened to Jesus and it went to his head. I do think that, if Jesus came back today he would need more proof now- a lot more proof, to back his claim that he is the Son of God. Does the Son of God know how the mathematics of the Universe works or not?
-
Lozhasleft
I think Jesus raising the dead was pretty spectacular in itself personally....
Loz x
-
moshe
-So if Jesus explained, in the 1st century, what Professor Hawking has to say about these things in the 21st century, you would be satisified?
No, it wouldn't have to have been that far into the future. Jesus could have shown everyone he was the Master of the Universe very easily, by making a crude water drop microscope. Make a hole in a leaf with a thorn and place a drop of water on the hole. You have just created a 30X-50x microscope and Jesus could proven that he had supernatural knowledge- about 1500 years ahead of his time. Or, he could have shown everyone how to make lye soap using wood ashes and animal fat and then told everyone how much healthier they would be, if they all bathed regularly and washed their hands with soap and water before delivering babies, so the mothers didn't die from infection. Jesus didn't do anything scientifically special because, he either didn't want to or didn't know how and either answer is a damning one.
Oh well, a failure of woulda, coulda, shoulda, is still the bane of humans today.
think Jesus raising the dead was pretty spectacular in itself personally..-
all hearsay- there is no proof to verify those claims and using the Bible as proof is not proof.
-
BurnTheShips
BTS, Tec, Hey, spiritual leaders are a dime a dozen- the really good ones ride on a donkey and eat honey & locusts- you have to watch out for the ones like the Bagwhan who had 27 Rolls Royce automobiles. However, when a spiritual leader claims to be the Son of God, they should expect to provide proof that matches their claims, don't you agree? -verifiable proof, that is, not 2nd and 3rd hand oral stories.
Well, this Jesus person didn't seem to have had access to a great deal of wealth, in the first place. In the second place, accounts by those that claim to have been eyewitnesses assert that he did some extraordinary things that are not normally possible. In the third place, a great many historical things are not experientially accessible. Therefore, you must extend your tent of doubt over much of what we accept as history if you insist on such a level of proof for anything, and this includes many other personages.
There are plenty of physics majors, by the way.
I'd like to add, regarding some of the "amazing" things you expect Jesus should have been able to do: He did some things that are not possible for science even today. That's some pretty advanced technology he wielded. Apparently it was convincing, because many of those that claim they saw him do what he did were sufficiently convinced to be executed for what they said they saw and what they said it meant.
BTS
-
moshe
-sufficiently convinced to be executed for what they said they saw and what they said it meant.
If dying for a cause was proof of it's validity, then today's Muslims who blow themselves up in the belief that they will be met by 72 virgins in heaven, take the prize.
-amazing stuff? Well, if you assume Jesus didn't pull any tricks, like feeding 5000 people- the loaves and fishes were hidden in the tall grass ahead of time by Jesus and his followers. The religious leaders weren't convinced by reports of Jesus' miracles and he refused to do anything special in their presence.