Separating saucer section...General Order 14. [Borg cubes inbound!--Part II]

by sd-7 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • sd-7
    Seriously, SD-7, have you considered that your wife may be setting you up with these elders so that she has evidence of a Dub-legal divorce?

    I fail to see what proof they would have for that. I've not cheated on her or anything like that. At most she might have valid grounds for separation on the basis of 'the risk of spiritual harm' or maybe because I'm a lot unstable emotionally and therefore an imagined threat to her physical safety. But not divorce.

    Kick her ass to the curb along with her cult literature and let her spiritual brothers and sisters take care of her. Maybe then she'll realize what she had, cause God knows those people are USELESS when it comes to taking care of their own.

    She has actually lived with other Witnesses before; I don't doubt she could do so again, except for the likelihood that she herself will be DF'd soon as well. She'll just move back in with her mom or something, worst case. At this point, it's hard to imagine she has anywhere else to go. But the fact is, the fact she loves the organization more than me (which, if she REALLY did, we wouldn't have anything to confess in the first place, unless perhaps she too couldn't keep it zipped) does not give me a license to do her dirty. Whatever my anger may be, I still have an atom or two left of honor.

    Much as I loathe them, these bastards may not be entirely evil, and certainly they're not consciously evil. I'll likely give them an opening if I mistreat her. And that, I don't need right now. But they're not going to just let us off easy. ...

    Not interested in sole custody of the kid--she's not even mine, for one, and for two, she likes her mom better anyway. Once she's older, she'll side with mom even if they really did hand out Kool-Aid. I love them both and would only take them as a package deal.

    If I could be a 'Cypher', I would. But I'm not. I don't see a life beyond this anyway. Don't know what the hell I'm doing no matter what. Can't even make basic decisions on my own. I've no way to learn that now. Got no one but myself to blame.


  • sd-7

    That said, the fornication part... yeah that was probably your fault and yours alone. But in no way was that a direct result of your research.

    At the very least, it was an INDIRECT result of the research, for one. For two, it was our fault, not the fault of one person, but the fault of two. Either way, it's why I need to die. I thought I made that clear.


  • jamiebowers

    Dear heart, I've already emailed you and am hoping you'll have the opportunity to call me. Everyone is right; please try to calm down.

    First of all, learning the truth about the "truth" did not cause you to become a filthy mouthed fornicator. The cult tends to have a damaging effect on people and causes them to do and say things they ordinarily wouldn't. And you are a normal, red blooded man who has needs like any other. Had the cult not warped your mind with the "sinfulness" of sexuality and interfered with your relationship, chances are good you could have and would have waited until marriage for sexual relations.

    Second, you are not a coward. Ever heard of "live to fight another day"? If you weren't ready to totally speak your mind to the elders, then you weren't ready. And that's all it is.

    I've always said that I would never tell you what to do, but I'm doing it now. Listen to me. DO NOTHING EXCEPT TO KEEP BREATHING UNTIL YOU HAVE TIME TO THINK THINGS OVER AND CALM DOWN! As painful as it is, it's the only thing you should be doing right now. Keep your books in your trunk. Thankfully, a lot of your research is recorded here, so even though you erased your computer files, at least there will be some record of all your hard work.

    You also need to get back into therapy ASAP. I don't care how tight your finances are right now. Nothing is more valuable than your life. And that's not just because it's a human life. It's because you are as sensitive as you are intelligent. You are as loving as you are thoughtful. Every fiber of your being is perfect just the way they are. You are humanity itself. And you are my friend.

    Not everythng is black or white. There is a compromise that you can find to have a happy life. Keep looking for it, dear heart, and you will come out of this an even better, stronger person than you already are. I'm here, and so are many others. And we want you to stay here on JWN and on this planet. You can do this, you can do this, you can do this. I KNOW IT!

    But you don't have to do it alone. For once in your life, give yourself a break and see the value of being alive and the energy that you put into the atmosphere. It's a pleasure to be your friend and to know who you really are.

  • wasastar

    sd-7: Your post is saturated with incredible pain. both from you and for those that read it. It is especially painful for me to read as I was one of those asshole elders for 17 years. I do not know anything about you, your wife or your marraige so anything I say is just unsolicited generic advice. The first question you need to address is how important is your marriage to you? What will it take to preserve your marriage and make it better? Are you willing to make the sacrifices needed? Try to remember if you want your wife to respect your views then you must also be willing to respect hers? If you do not want to be DF then you need to convince the elders that you appreciate them. Tell them how gratefull you are for their willingness to help you. Try the I am getting medication for my depression angle. Go see an MD. Tell them you destroyed all your research.

    Then go to work onyour marraige. Sometimes there are certain subjects in a marriage that are off limits. My wife and I have had our issues. What seems to work best for us is to not discuss this controversial subject. We dance around it a little once in awhile. I have ceased going out in service but I attend most of the meetings and try to be friendly to everyone there. I still give talks on the TMS. My wife is ever faithful to the org. and to her friends. She is a very kind Christian woman that is very active in the congregation. I respect her choices and she does not hound me to be a different person. I do things just make her happy as in maintaining a presence in the congregation. However I do know at this time think it would not be good for our marriage to dwell on the differences in our beliefs. At this time I am managing the cognitive dissonance.

    I sincerely hope that you will be able to manage this crisis in a way that will benefit you and your family for the long term. There is certainly lots of advice on this board, some good some not so good. And everyone truly wants what is best for you. However you and your family will have to decide what is the best course. Try not to let your anger at yourself, at the borg, and at your wife control you.

    Wishing you better times ahead,


  • darkl1ght3r

    At the very least, it was an INDIRECT result of the research, for one. For two, it was our fault, not the fault of one person, but the fault of two. Either way, it's why I need to die. I thought I made that clear.

    Fair enough. Of course there's going to be more than one person involved in the act itself... unless it's self-fornication.

    Just trying to lend some support. Your story broke my heart. We all f**k up occasionally. Just remember no matter how bad you feel, you're no worse than the rest of humanity. And in fact... judging by your words and concern for others, I'd say you're a good deal better than most.

    You don't need to die. You just need to work through this sh*t. One step at a time. You'll get there. It CAN'T last forever.

    Take care... We're all pulling for ya.

  • cantleave

    SD7 - I'm so very very sorry you feel the way you are. I can't say I know what you are going through but I do know what Jamie has written above is right. You thanked her at the beginning, now listen to her, she has your best interests at heart. PLEASE take care, don't do anything rash, we are thinking and for those who still believe it praying for you.

  • sd-7

    You folks take care of yourselves, okay? Just...take care.

    Saying Goodbye,


  • Think About It
    Think About It

    SD-7......hope it works out for you buddy.

    Looks like you have 2 choices. (1) stay in and try to be happy (2) get out and try to be happy

    Your wife evidently wants to stay in and it looks like at least one child is involved. Only you know if the relationship will work with you out of the org. Seen something about fornication, but don't know if that is still an issue or in the past. Strange to me that your wife would play the pre-marital sex card to these men. If you decide to stay in....just put the blinders on, shield yourself from the crap and be happy. I only became unhappy the more active I got and the more I seen.

    I don't know you, but my guess is you are young and a born-in JW. Some of your thoughts in word and actions in of itself is proof that the religion is not emotionally healthy.

    Stop with the anger driving, you can unintentionally have an accident. Stop with the hitting yourself, because it's ridiculous, immature and your young wife will lose respect for you. Above all stop with the suicide talk, because that's not the answer and you need to be there for your child.

    Calm down, be rational and just try to get your family through life with some measure of happiness. These men only have control of your life and happiness as much as you let them have.

    Think About It

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Listen to Jamie for Christ's sake.

    You are illegitmately taking on the blame for their bad behaviour and feeling guilt for non-adherance to their rules, moral code, etc.

    Get some professional help to deal with it before you do something really stupid.



  • AllTimeJeff

    If you're still reading.

    Your pain is real. I am glad you let us know how you are feeling. The truth hurts. And your experience is exactly why I left the way I did.

    I don't say that to suggest that your pain and your circumstances are anywhere near mine. But that scene with the elders is what I would have been faced with. I knew my wife wouldn't leave, at least easily, nor did I feel it my responsibility to take the woman I loved, and change her mind.

    She was, is, and always will be of her own mind. It was never mine, it never will be mine. She has to accept responsibility for the stuff she believes, even if it is total bullshit.

    None of which makes anyone feel better.

    Dude, I am going to go out on a limb, if you are still reading this. Feel free to totally disregard what I am about to say.

    First of all, be open to the possibility that you will feel differently tomorrow. I had a nervous breakdown or two right after I pulled the plug. It was total hell. It doesn't mean you are damaged beyond repair. It's your brains way of telling you that you have been hurt and injured emotionally. It's ok (within reason) to be sad about that. Of course it is.

    Once the intense pain is left, might I suggest that being selfish is not only the one thing you can do, but it might be the best thing you can do?

    Right now, your expectations and dreams need to be adjusted. You can still have a happy life. Will it be different then what you at one time thought? Sure. No one can change that.

    But you have a daughter who just may not believe the bullshit. She'll need someone to help her. She only has one dad. Maybe its for the best if ultimately you decide to seperate. Maybe you'll figure out a way to make it work. If you feel though that you can't go on living like this, you are well within your rights to seek a divorce in my opinion.

    Here's some rationale: You should have an expectation to expect a minimum amount of humanity from your wife. It is unfortunate that she feels as she does. That isn't your responsibility though. The hard truth is, you aren't changing her. She wants to be a JW more then she wants to be a good wife. Ultimately, the borg did that to her, but she allowed that to happen, and that is on her. It's not on you.

    Both of you could be better parents if you at least seperate and give things a chance to cool down. Maybe in a few months, that seperation becomes permanent, maybe it doesn't. But two parents making each other crazy is the last thing from healthy, esp if it makes you unable to be stable in dealing with your kids.

    Also, you need to accept the fact that learning that your former religion is not true is really a difficult, traumatic thing. It fu*cked me in the head pretty good. (just read the topics I posted and argued on). If this means anything to you, it is normal and expected for you to have this reaction.

    You can't be a good dad until you take care of yourself. I got therapy. I got help. You can and should too. It took me a while. But I got better over time. I was able to talk about and deal with my emotions.

    This is all one mans opinion, who just wanted to share a similar experience, and to tell you that I am sending good thoughts your way. I hope in the next day or two, you will check in, and hope that at time you feel a little better. PM me if you'd like. Thanks bro.

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