I Don't Sympathise With Suicides

by Englishman 83 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Englishman

  Sorry, but I have seen too much of it. Let me explain.

  Firstly I have seen any number of so-called attempted suicides. I've walked past an old girl friends house, seen her watching TV through the window, by the time I'm knocking on the door she's told me that she had her head in the gas oven and my knock stopped her.

  My Mother in law walks into the sea for a pastime. Every time she can't get her own way she walks in up to her knees and waits for someone to see her. She gets a whole hours attention at a psychiatric hospital before they suss she's faking it.

  Another thing. I know all about the Samaritans. Believe me, when a person is really contemplating taking their own life, they can barely speak on that phone so great is their anguish. Those who can talk aint gonna do it!

  So when someone enters a chat room and says that they are going to top themself, and then appears next day and robustly denounces those who doubted their sincerity - and posts remarkably lucidly too - I have very strong doubts as to that person needing all that cyber-loving.

  IMO, this is mega attention seeking. If a person tells me quite clearly that he is going to do it I'll tell him to do it. Then I'll watch him get mad and angry. They always do, just like we're seeing now.

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
• 

  RunningMan

  Well, that's not very polically correct of you. But, I see your point.
• 

  D wiltshire

  Eman,

  I agree that many claim they are going to kill themselves for attention. And don't realize the hurt they inflict on others with this tactic.(I have been hurt by this)
  Some though may suffer severe depression and it may be their call for help, hopefully they will get it.

  I feel that if a person is of sound mind, he should have the right to terminate his life if that be his desire, and should be respected as a free moral agent who can make that choice.

  I would find it very hard to assist anyone contemplating suicide if they were of good health, but if they had some terrible illness and would suffer greatly, and there was no hope of ever getting better, I might if my love for them was strong enough, offer my assistance even if it would mean legal problems for me.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  dubla

  So when someone enters a chat room and says that they are going to top themself, and then appears next day and robustly denounces those who doubted their sincerity - and posts remarkably lucidly too - I have very strong doubts as to that person needing all that cyber-loving.

  IMO, this is mega attention seeking.

  i agree, 100%. im probably going to get labeled as cold-hearted for saying this, but i really think the whole thing was nothing more than a publicity stunt of sorts.....a cry for help no doubt, dont get me wrong. i think its unfortunate though, for someone to get a whole group of people so worried that multiple calls to the fbi are made on his behalf, and certain ones probably had sleepless nights worrying over it........and theres a good chance that he never fully intended to do this in the first place.

  i can understand his needing help, needing to talk to people. but to say "im killing myself" and then dissapear into thin air is just fucked up. he knew full well what that would do to the people that cared about him.....he knew they would be worried all night, until they heard from him again.....he no doubt thought of these people and what they were wondering that night as he was taking a half bottle of pills.

  if you are really serious, and about to commit suicide, and need to cry out for help....call a suicide hotline, they are trained for it. dont hurt a large group of people with your false threat.

  again, im sure ill be chastised for this viewpoint as uncaring and cold-hearted......but i really am a caring person, and i can understand those that feel for kevin, and were worried about him, and im sure he has problems that i dont understand......i just think its unfortunate that someone would put so many in that position.

  aa
• 

  Billygoat

  I am just speaking from my own experiences, but suicidal thoughts are a very serious thing. It grips the heart and steels the mind into self-destruct mode. Unless you've experienced it, you cannot understand it, thus you cannot fulled have sympathy for those that do experience it. It's like a man saying he sympathises with birth pangs. No he doesn't. He has no idea what birth pangs are like. He can try to imagine, but he cannot sympathize or empathize.

  I've mentioned this in Celtic's suicide thread, but I'll bring it up again:

  I believe that suicidal feelings/thoughts is one of the worst things a human can experience. Life problems are difficult no matter what age, time of your life, religious beliefs, sex, or economic status. But when you don't have the mental and emotional facilities to cope with those life problems they can overwhelm anyone. Kenny2 said it wonderfully earlier:

  "I was told that suicidal feelings are the result of ones pain exceeding their coping abilities. So the answer is to either reduce the pain or escalate the ability to cope."

  I also believe that these coping abilities are skills. They are things that can be taught. Unfortunately, because history shows us that JW's are typically at a lower emotional maturity level than most people, which means they probably have not been taught these coping skills. That's why I think suicide rates are higher with JW's than most. Their version of coping is "wait on Jehovah". Now don't get me wrong...I believe patience and time (or Jehovah) can be a healing friend, but that doesn't help a person in the throes of anguish. It doesn't help right at that moment. What can? A hug. A friend willing to listen. A friend willing to just be there and watch tv with. Medication. Professional therapy. An email from someone concerned. A poem. A scripture. Someone praying with and for me.

  My experience is that most people who are threatening suicide don't really want to die. They just want their pain to go away and they don't know how to do it...

  ...It never really helped me when someone told me to "pull my socks up". That usually got me more depressed. I know that strategy works well for others though. I think the key is to remember that depression grips people differently. The answer to solving depression is going to be different for different people. I personally try to be gentle and encouraging as I know that works best for me.

  Andi
• 

  ThiChi

  There are two sides to the coin. Some, for whatever reasons (ongoing physical pain, some mental pain, others just loose the will to go on) want to end their life. I found this situation very interesting and perplexing at the same time.

  I read a very interesting book, “The Final Exit,” written by a Doctor who gives an unemotional account of all sides to this issue. One of the subjects he covers was the “sloppy” way many end their lives or, they fail and are worse off than when they started, and then he cites the common causes from documentation why certain methods are used, and why they should be avoided. Then he proceeds to address ways the final exit can be attained in the most efficient way, while considering the aftermath of loved ones. A must read for all viewpoints on this sad subject!

  “Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Send my credentials to the House of Detention, I got some friends inside.....” The Doors
• 

  Englishman

  Dubla,

  Good for you. Bugger the chastising about not being PC and all that, there's quite enough dick-heads - EMOTIONAL HIJACKERS! -around as it is.

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
• 

  Sirona

  I considered suicide at one time in my life. I didnt tell anyone, I simply stood at the side of the road feeling numb, wondering if I had the guts to walk out in front of the next bus that came along.

  I didnt have the guts to do it, mainly because I didnt think it would kill me (I'd probably end up worse off in some hospital bed) and I couldnt think of any other effective way, really. Also, I tend to think that you dont actually plan suicide. You just think about it a bit in a detached quiet sort of way, then IF the opportunity arose and you were in the 'wrong' mental state, you'd carry it out.

  I agree that those who post they are going to do it usually are just asking for attention. You dont tell people if you are going to do it. Someone I know who works in a mental hospital frequently tells people to "just do it" and when he told me this I was horrified! but I think I understand now.

  By the way, Im very happy now! That time in my life is over and Im just glad I coped eventually. I feel sorry for people who attempt it though, because their attention seeking is a demonstration of the hell they're going through.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
• 

  flower

  i think you are right to a certain degree. i have spent a lot of time in depression related chat rooms and boards and have seem my share of suicide threats. many of them turned out to be attention seeking tactics. in fact, i was so screwed up in the past and desperate for love and attention myself that in the past i resorted to the same. i know that makes me a sicko in your eyes and maybe other peoples eyes. but i am not and even back then when i was behaving in that kind of manner I wasnt. I was simply a emotional wreck looking for something i never had. a feeling that i was special.

  there are people in the world that have never experienced love in any way shape or form. there are people who have never been the center of attention. never had a birthday party or any kind of special event just for them. you survive however you can englishman. i can almost guarantee you that someone who performs a 'phoney' suicide attempt either online or otherwise HAS at some point seriously thought about it because of the feeling of being alone and unimportant. they are desperate and they have found a way to cope for the time being by getting the attention of people online. rather than be angry why not have sympathy. yes they are 'playin' people but think of what must drive a person to that point. unless they are out and out crazy which is rarely the case, its a feeling of extreme loneliness and desperation that makes a person do something like threaten suicide when they dont mean it.

  i have been seriously suicidal and you are right I told no one. but i didnt have a computer back then so who can say if I would have talked to anyone or not. i certainly didnt have any 'reallife' friends to tell. i have also been seriously suicidal online and told friends i had made. i've cried real tears onto my keyboard and drawn real blood from my arms while talking to people online. they were the only friends i had. i've had the feeling that i WANT so bad to do IT but those people talking to me all at once..i just knew i couldnt do that to them.

  a suicide threat, phoney or real, is all about survival. people dont want to die even when they attempt or threaten to kill themselves. they want someone to tell them something that will make it all better

  flower

  You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
• 

  Billygoat

  Let's say a new person, Harry, is hired for a position at your company. You've been selected to train Harry for his job. He has no job experience and no training. He doesn't know how to type, file, or even use the copying machine. Would you get mad at him because he feels so frustrated with his own lack of skills that he wants to quit the job? Don't you think as a trainer, that it would be best to start from scratch and teach this person the basics of what goes on in an office? How to answer the phone, how to make coffee, how to use the copy maching, etc. A good trainer would understand why Harry get frustrated and would encourage him to take it slow. Let him build on the simplest of tasks and learn upwards from there.

  This is very much like those that have terrible suicidal feelings. In many instances (not all) they have not been taught to cope with some of the stressors in regular everyday life. Whether their parents failed them or whether their church failed them, they were never taught that important skill. Why not be gentle on someone and help teach them the fundamentals of coping?

  Andi